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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 30, 2006 - 08:38pm PT
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"Wings of Steel (Continued)" the thread was getting long too, so here's the third installment in one of our SuperTaco land favorites.
First, to answer Lovegasonline's questions from the end of the last thread.
"Was your Valley Name "The Madbolter"?"
The mad bolters are what they were derisively called during the ordeal. Very cool and funny screen name for Richard.
"I recall my first season in the Valley hearing about a wall that was 'chopped behind itself' as it was ascended."
Porcelain Wall on Half Dome by Harding perhaps?
Ok, on with what ended up sounding like an 8th great book report...
I have finished reading Wings of Steel – A record 39 days on the face of El Capitan. A fascinating adventure and powerful spiritual odyssey.
First off I thought it was excellent. Well written, engaging, fun to read. Like a long trip report with some explanations of climbing for the layman and some relevant spiritual discussions. Once I started reading it, I didn’t want to put it down and finished it in a couple days.
I started reading the forward and thought “Wow that sounds like Warren…” Of course it was, who could mistake that intelligence and wit. “Perhaps this could explain the rather atavistic behavior of some of the resident climberfellows who, mentally don’t appear to be very far removed from the caves! They were simply defending “their” turf.”
The first chapter explains climbing to the layman, but it’s a fun read even for experienced climbers, IMO. It’s a much better summary of what climbing is than in most “Instructional” books I’ve read. Statements such as “You don’t like to drill the rock, because the whole idea in climbing is to accept the situation that the rock presents naturally and to adapt to it.” Give a good idea of Richard’s ideas of ethics and style.
“There was a can of chili rubbed through the pile with the can on top. But I could tell that the odor wasn’t chili…” I’ve got to hand it to Richard and Mark for the amount of tact they displayed dealing with this situation, in this thread, and in the book. I would have wanted to rip someone’s head off. And props for the perseverance needed to overcome the ‘external’ challenges of this climb. Just like Batso again. Maybe everything you are supposed to face in your chosen challenge doesn’t just take place on the rock?
Although I’m not Christian, I could relate to most of the religious parts. They weren’t overdone at all. The ideas were easily applicable to my beliefs and an inspiration.
This review doesn’t do this fine book justice. It’s a worthy read.
Although the book and the climb weren’t perfect, what is? They’ve gotten enough criticism, so I’m not going to bother to try to think of anything negative.
And although I thinks it’s the most overused, clichéd word used by climbers today, I just gotta say to Richard and Mark if you're listening:
PROUD!!!
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Jan 30, 2006 - 08:46pm PT
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Well Fet, you'll obviously never be one of the cool guys.
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pc
climber
Eastside
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Jan 30, 2006 - 08:48pm PT
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Nice post Fet. Thanks for the tip.
pc
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 25, 2006 - 03:17pm PT
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Well, Fet, you've brought me out again, not particularly because your review was complimentary (although I do thank you for that), but because you are obviously a thinking person, which again arouses my hope for what these threads could become. I have really appreciated your thoughtfulness in past posts, and your most recent post is just a continuation of that trend.
What I had hoped for in these threads is that we could quickly get past the criticism/defense mode and move on to a much more generally fruitful and interesting discussion of big-wall and aid climbing ethics. In particular, certain questions interest me:
1) What relation (if any) exists between "modifications" (including everything from traditional nailing to full-on bolting) on an aid route and the value of the route?
2) Must a route be "repeatable" in order for its first ascent to have been valid/respectable?
3) What is the nature of "climbing" itself? I take genuine risk to be an integral part of it, but why should it be? The answers to this question should tease out what makes aid climbing actually "climbing," while (horrors!) perhaps sport climbing is something more akin to gymnastics than to "climbing."
4) HOW should the climbing community "regulate itself," which is to ask: how should we treat each other in the face of controversial climbers/ascents? This issue also involves the question of how the climbing community properly evaluates new and potentially "cutting edge" advances in tactics/equipment.
I have other ethical interests, but these seem most pressing. Of course, discussion of these issues has been started elsewhere, and such discussions will continue in many venues long after we're all dead, but the the WoS debate does provide a compelling context for these issues.
Regarding my choice of handle, I do have a Ph.D. in philosophy, so to my rabid critics: in future criticisms, you shall refer to me as "Dr. Mad Bolter," or "Dr. Butcher," etc. :) Seriously, though, I do hope that future discussions can be a bit more elevated and worthwhile now that the criticism/defense phase seems to have passed.
To Fet, thanks again.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 25, 2006 - 03:20pm PT
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Also, as a public post, several people from the previous threads asked Mark and/or me to email them an original topo of the route, and we agreed to do so. Mark and I have scoured our files in vain for the original topo we had, which showed the exact location of every drilled placement.
We have both moved repeatedly since WoS, and neither of us can find that topo. What we both have now is the one we submitted for the Meyers guide, which doesn't give more detail than what can be found there. We will keep looking, and eventually some obscure box will be found to contain the original. Until that time, however, the Meyers topo is the best we have.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 25, 2006 - 04:11pm PT
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I'll make the popcorn.....
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Apr 25, 2006 - 04:12pm PT
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Russ are you suppling the beer??? Does the title of this thread mean there is two more pages full of bullshit like this???
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 25, 2006 - 04:25pm PT
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I would like to read Wings of Steel – A record 39 days on the face of El Capitan
How and where do I get a copy?
Anyone want to make the second ascent? I have a bit of time this spring.....
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 25, 2006 - 06:07pm PT
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A second ascent could be tricky. Apparently there are crumbling hook placements that may no longer be useable. I have not waded through the previous two threads, and I suffer from CRS. Are there bathook holes to use?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 25, 2006 - 06:30pm PT
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Sorry JIMB'o,
but I would Prefer tO Spend my time other ways.
Read them there threads to find out why I ain't going with Pete.
edit: Pete: try http://www.bookfinder.com
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Apr 25, 2006 - 06:32pm PT
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Russ, remove those threads before Pete can read them.
Pete, the glorious second ascent awaits you!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Apr 25, 2006 - 06:34pm PT
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Russ, I am not happy about not being included in the group picture.
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Apr 25, 2006 - 06:37pm PT
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2006 - 06:49pm PT
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IMO:
1) What relation (if any) exists between "modifications" (including everything from traditional nailing to full-on bolting) on an aid route and the value of the route?
With everything else being equal, less modifications = more value.
2) Must a route be "repeatable" in order for its first ascent to have been valid/respectable?
No/repeats will possibly help garner respect
3) What is the nature of "climbing" itself? I take genuine risk to be an integral part of it, but why should it be? The answers to this question should tease out what makes aid climbing actually "climbing," while (horrors!) perhaps sport climbing is something more akin to gymnastics than to "climbing."
I don't think climbing needs risk. Risk can add respect/style to an ascent, but it's not an integral part of climbing. Risk adds thrill and challenge and has it's place, but I've had a lot of fun on climbs with very low risk and that's good enough for me sometimes.
4) HOW should the climbing community "regulate itself," which is to ask: how should we treat each other in the face of controversial climbers/ascents? This issue also involves the question of how the climbing community properly evaluates new and potentially "cutting edge" advances in tactics/equipment.
I think for the most part the community has done the right thing. It needs people who are willing to chop bolts that shouldn't be there (e.g. retro-bolts), but it also needs people who are willing to think outside the box (e.g. use cams). It needs that give and take to help come to a rough community consensus of what is acceptable.
However, there is a line that is crossed on occasion, which shouldn't be. And that is VERY LAME e.g. crapping on ropes, starting physical violence, stealing gear. But everyone makes mistakes, especialy when they are fired up about something, hopefully they can be big enough to realize it and to apologize some day.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Apr 25, 2006 - 07:05pm PT
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Hall of Mirrors.....5.13
Wings of Steel......5.16???
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 25, 2006 - 07:13pm PT
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AlDude, this thing is so YOU!!!
We should get out the bleach and propane torch for the bottom of your shoes and then you can give it a go.... You my man, are just the man for the job.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Apr 25, 2006 - 07:15pm PT
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Careful, climbing hard slab really dates you.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 25, 2006 - 07:17pm PT
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Thanks, Russ. It's on order. I'll read it when I'm on the wall not climbing, which is most of the time.
You know, if you're not going to climb, going not climbing with me would be a good start...
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Apr 25, 2006 - 07:22pm PT
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Russ, We need a breakthrough in rubber technology (hint,hint Charles).Then replace exsisting holes w/real bolts. Then a crisp morning and Divine Intervention. SLAB NIRVANA! That photo rocks!
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