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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
"The 3rd crappist place to live in England"
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 17, 2011 - 02:52pm PT
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Needed for my latest solo hand-drilled-from-stances "last great problem".
Acme are out of their $1.75 stainless until summer. looking fro 20 or 30
Cheers and...
Gluais faicilleach le cupan làn
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Mar 17, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
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If you know someone in Canada, you can get stainless Fixe unpainted hangers for 2.10 Canadian pesos. That's a pretty good price for stainless.
Barring that, then I'd suggest to try to find a local retail shop with a soft spot for route developers and see if they'll get you a quantity discount, or, hit them up on a spring 20-25% off sale.
I prefer the Metolius pre-painted, but, they're more spendy. I'd rather ante up especially if the route is a good enough line that other folks will enjoy it.
Madrock hangers used to be a buck per at a deal, but, hard to find that great a price on them anymore. Some folks don't like how they clip, but, they do seem easy on a carabiner (not the sharp edges of a Fixe or Petzl). The hole tends to be on the small side if there's a chance you'll install 1/2" or a large stud. They work great with 3/8" Powerbolts.
Good luck, and, if you find any killer deals on hangers (stainless only for me), post up!
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Oxymoron
Big Wall climber
total Disarray
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Mar 17, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
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MadRock. Chinese. Therefore deemed unworthy.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Mar 17, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
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Chinese steel is at least 50 percent horsesh#t. No regulation at all. Batch to batch of the same alloy is radically different in composition...
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Mar 17, 2011 - 06:37pm PT
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The best deal is the ones that last the longest.
If your going to drill it, then fill it with something good!
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Mar 17, 2011 - 06:54pm PT
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If you find people to split it with, you can get 100 Fixe stainless for 2.50 each - but note that these are 1/2" (13mm) hole hangers, so might be a bit large for hand drilling (unless you are hand drilling soft sandstone or something):
http://www.fixeusa.com/sale/sale_0131.htm
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Mar 17, 2011 - 07:10pm PT
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Greg, A couple stacked washers and I bet I still can use a 1/4" button head with that 1/2" hanger. Ascent first, then proper hardware later. Isn't that how it goes?
Rock on! Marty
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Mar 17, 2011 - 08:54pm PT
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www.mountaingear.com is where I get the best price on hangers.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Mar 17, 2011 - 10:49pm PT
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Mountain gears prices are always on the higher end of the spectrum.
The 2.50 per 100 deal on Fixe hangers is a decent deal. Not great but decent.
I think I can russell up about 10 or 15 of the Acme ones if you're in a real pinch, but I definitely need to place an order come summer to replenish the stocks.
With the outrageous prices on hangers these days I'm going to be looking into making my own. I figure that'd be the best deal going. Yeah, maybe they wont be rated and polished but they'll be GUD enough!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Mar 17, 2011 - 11:21pm PT
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A friend looked into that option Sal.
SS 1/4" design did not pan out finacially viable, for a run of 250+.
Now just some homemade, hand bent rigs... No problem. We have made a bunch of different types.
I have no reservations climbing above them, just as long as it's not too hard:)
I love those mad rock hangers, and the fusion for anchors.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 17, 2011 - 11:23pm PT
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there are bunch of used ones on Cookie Monster...free, U pick up.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
"The 3rd crappist place to live in England"
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2011 - 01:27am PT
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Thanks for the offer Chad. I was reading about this mixed metal thing from Fixe. I have placed a number of SS bolts with Non SS hangers and always though it ok based on the fact that the Non SS hanger may wear or rust out sooner, but it is visible and can also be replaced if needed. Is there really a mechanism by which the stainless bolt will more quickly corrode because of direct contact with a non SS hanger? What is the mechanism? What is Mr Barnes take on it? I really don't want to start replacing my own hangers
a
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Mar 18, 2011 - 02:09am PT
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The mixed metal warning is for galvanic corrosion. This is a major issue in wet areas, particularly limestone areas (including seeping overhangs), and less in dry areas. It really depends on the specific location and how wet it gets. There was a bolt (hanger actually) failure caused by galvanic corrosion in the PNW recently, but the hanger was aluminum. I have only rarely seen it as deposits on bolts, so rarely that I don't even remember where, and I don't have a good picture...if you blow up the 3rd picture down on the right you can kind of get the idea (white deposits/rust look): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
It is pretty rare in the desert, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it in Yosemite - you'd have to go take a close look at a pile of the older 3/8" 5-pieces with stainless hangers.
So it's one of those hard-to-tell whether it is a real problem for our area (definite worry for any wet area), but if you just get the same metals then it's a no brainer. And since you ought to use all stainless to begin with, it shouldn't be an issue, right?
(besides if you are cheap and don't use stainless bolts, the plated steel hangers are usually cheaper anyway...)
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Mar 18, 2011 - 12:03pm PT
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since you ought to use all stainless to begin with, it shouldn't be an issue, right?
Right on!
BTW, steel hanger on ss wedge anchor will corrode until you can't back the nut off. Most likely probably damage the threads and have to drill a new hole for replacement.
@15-17 year old mixed metals in wet Pacific NW location. If this was all SS it would look all like the wedge anchor.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Mar 18, 2011 - 12:24pm PT
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Is there really a mechanism by which the stainless bolt will more quickly corrode because of direct contact with a non SS hanger? What is the mechanism?
Here's a pretty good explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
A stainless fastener will be the cathode, while, the non stainless steel will have a higher anodic index, and, be the anode (ie, "sacrifial anode").
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
"The 3rd crappist place to live in England"
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2011 - 02:18am PT
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so if I understand it correctly the mild steel hanger will be the sacraficial anode to the stainless bolt? So in the example of the SS bolt and non SS hanger the "mixed metals" may actally slow the corrosion of the the bolt? alterantively could a aluminum or other more noble metal washer be placed between the two, to be the sacraficial anode? What about a nylon washer to prevent contact between the 2 disimilar metals and sidestep the whole problem?
a
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Mar 20, 2011 - 03:27am PT
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In the picture of the SS bolt and non-SS hanger in the PNW, the question I have is 'is the nut on the bolt SS or non-SS?'
From the rust shown in the picture it seems like someone used a non-SS nut on a SS wedge bolt. That is a definite no-no regardless of wet or dry conditions.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
"The 3rd crappist place to live in England"
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2011 - 12:20am PT
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any engineers out there with answers to the above questions on bolting with mixed metals?
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Mar 23, 2011 - 03:13am PT
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The corrosion between stainless and normal steel in contact is called, not suprisingly, contact corrosion and you can find plenty of information on this by searching for contact corrosion in stainless steel.
The iron (hanger/nut) corrodes faster than the stainless BUT commonly leaves a pit in the stainless at the contact point which leads to pitting and crevice corrosion even though the iron contamination is long gone.
If you pulled the nut off the bolt in the photo you´d probably see the nasty holes already in the bolt threads. Using steel hangers is sort-of nasty, using steel nuts is complete stupidity.
Jim
Bolt Products
Germany
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