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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 4, 2010 - 09:11pm PT
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We've all heard climbers talk the talk. Maybe you yourselves have sprayed the old "I love the challenge of overcoming difficulty" schpeil.
But lets be honest. Go to any well travelled and even most of the not well travelled climbing areas and what are most people climbing?
The easiest and the best protected routes!
And it is not just because those routes "allow" access to the largest demographic.
While true, the traffic is still out of proportion to the spectrum of skill levels of those people on those routes.
So why is this?
Are climbers pussies posing as high adventurers making hay of climbing's romantic image to the flatlander while actually living all the challenge of a gym climber?
I got a raft of crap for retrobolting Prodigal Sun in the '80s, but there is no way you would see half the traffic there is on it now if I hadn't.
There are still some adventurers out there but the vast bulk of climbers these days seem to be taking a ride on their coat tails.
Has a culture that celebrated boldness been diluted by rap bolts, topos and gyms?
Has climbing been watered down to weak sauce?
Oh, the humanity!
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R.B.
Big Wall climber
Land of the Lahar
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Oh, you must mean the difference between Trad vs. Sport .... as in "can I have a bolt every body length, please?"
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Batso was no pussy!
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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There are more people doing extremely challenging climbing today than there were back in the day. There is also a much broader range of types of climbing. Pick your own flavor. Part of the reason is that as a sport it is attracting so many people with such a broad range of talent and dedication. And development of the sport is still just getting started.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Don't mind me - I just climb for the view.
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Ben Harland
Social climber
Baltimore, MD
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I think that the ethics and adventure are perfectly intact today. The population of "pussy" climbers has just swelled, and I'm one of them. But I still think that the "I love the challenge of overcoming difficulty" applies in my game of climbing easy and well protected routes. I'm getting plenty scared enough out there and that's part of the appeal.
Look on the bright side Ron - we aren't clogging your adventure routes and you have a growing fanbase.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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"Many are called, few are chosen"
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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there are two 5.12a's at echo cliffs, right next to each other, geezer and whippersnapper. i've acquitted myself fairly well on these toproped. then someone told me they were the easiest 5.12s in southern california. i totally resigned all ambitions the next day.
there will never be anyone like the generation of bridwell and harding. and they were wussies compared to the gervasuttis and kurzes who, after all, died on the rock. (you really need balls to do that!) and they couldn't stand up to the inaptly named whymper. and before that we had the roman gladiators. and before that, rok and zog were stoning woolly mammoths with their bare hands and using smilodon fangs for toothpicks. and before that ...
oh, the humanity!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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In the late 80's into the 90's if you went to Joshua Tree you would see good climbers going after the hard testpieces. Bachar would be running his solo circuit. Hidetaka would be running laps on Soul Fusion - he'd pull the exit mantle, stand there for a moment and jump off. Then he would unclip each bolt and jump again. Climbs like Stand and Deliver, Rule Brittania, London Calling, Scorpion, Some Like it Hot were in demand.
Chameleon, Desert Song and Where Eagles Dare were trade routes.
Anyone who dared to hangdog publicly fell victim to the Mobile Harassment Unit!
Guys were lining up to break ankles on Puss 'n Boots. Folks were coming from Euro to try to repeat Cosgrove routes and going home months later denied, with bloody stubs for fingers.
Leavitt was cranking 5.13s at 5AM in the middle of summer.
Too Strong was routinely taking 80 foot flyers.
Today there's not a spot of chalk on any of those climbs, and every one is lined up at Double Cross, White Lightning and The Crossroads.
The humanity!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Whats happened to climbing is only a symptom of a systemic cultural decline.
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Spiky
Trad climber
Wales
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Hi Guys, if you're looking for adventure maybe u better check out the climbing this side of the pond - we've got some nice climbing on Red Wall Gogarth (have a look at Enchanted Broccoli Garden and Come to Mother - Jonny Dawes has a nice description of Come to Mother in his new book - coming out soon)and Stevie Haston and Leigh McGinley have been doing some good stuff on the Lleyn recently.
We still have guys here who don't use friends (don't trust them or think they are aid for free climbing - do u remember the debate when they came out) I remember Nat Allen (bless his soul) had a set of friends on the mantelpiece for when he got old - WE GOTTA GET OUR SPORT BACK TO THOSE TIMES!
Good climbing!
Spiky
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Spiky
Trad climber
Wales
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You're right Jim, but how is it that alpinists are doing such audacious stuff (eg Ueli Steck, Colin Haley, Rolo et al), but we the rock climbers appear to be battering routes into submission (however easy). Maybe bolts really were the thin edge of the wedge here (not name dropping, and I couldn't understand it at the time having had my first (poison sweet) taste of bolt clipping in France/Spain, but I remember particularly Paul Nunn and Nat railing against bolts in the UK in any shape or form).
Good climbing!
Spiky
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Well, it is interesting that climbing bolts are rarely tolerated in England, Wales, or Scotland, or for that matter Norway. But climbers from those places do often go to warmer and drier places with bolts, mostly on limestone. Having the best of both worlds, perhaps?
When the film Hard Grit came out, some young climbers I talked with didn't quite get why there weren't any bolts. (They couldn't quite understand the dialect, either.)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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So why is this? Are climbers pussies posing as high adventurers making hay of climbing's romantic image to the flatlander while actually living all the challenge of a gym climber?
Nah. Nothing that complicated or deep. But while the answer to your question is simple, your many decades of experience makes you incapable of seeing it. I was the same, but one day this summer I became enlightened, and I will pass on to you what I learned from an ascended master. It happened like this...
Wayno and I had spent a fine summer day climbing a route on the Upper Town Wall at Index. Well protected and easy -- just the sort of thing you're talking about, and that night we probably would have sprayed, just as you say. But walking down the trail in the late afternoon we crossed paths with a man headed up the hill.
But not just any man. I'd have simply nodded and carried on down, thinking that this fellow with the small backpack and light clothes was just a fitness buff out for his afternoon workout, but Wayno recognized him (from pictures on the fabled Supertopo website) as the ascended perfect master Dick Cilley, and begged for enlightenment. Well, okay, what one of us actually said was something like "What are you up to, by yourself and with such a small pack? Are you planning to climb something?"
The response was: "Climbing is over. I'm just going to drop a rope on something and mini-trac out. Nobody climbs any more, mini-trac is all that's worth doing."
So, Ron, there you have it. It is not that climbers have become pussies, but rather that there simply are no more climbers. There are bumblies who think that what they are doing is what was once called climbing, and there are people who once were real climbers but who now know that mini-trac is the true calling.
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Spiky
Trad climber
Wales
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Mighty Hiker, first para of your post: you're right and only the guys at the top are able to differentiate between trad and sport; the rest are confused.
Ghost, maybe you're right, but that would be sad.
Good climbing!
Spiky
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Spiky
Trad climber
Wales
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ok locker, but aren't we meant to evolve and improve (eg was it really necessary to chip that route).
Good climbing!
Spiky
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AKTrad
Mountain climber
AK
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We're old! Sour stomachs!! No spices, no hot food, no limes, low sodium, bland food...no adventure and weak sauce.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Yup there are no real climbers left Ron............
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I just thought that given the thread title, we should have at least one kitty photo. Hey, she's climbing, isn't she? Free solo, too.
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Spiky
Trad climber
Wales
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Good one mighty hiker!
Spiky
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