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David C
Trad climber
UK
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 6, 2010 - 08:28am PT
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Hi,
I'm 5'7" and have watched Chris Mac's video on fifi length. If I make the length long enough to clip it in from the third step (Metolius aiders) its so long I'm hanging out in space from the second step. If I leave it until the second step to clip in it all feel very precarious. Is Chris Mac tall? And, how have any other shorties solved this problem?
Thanks.
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WBraun
climber
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"I'm 5'7" and have watched Chris Mac's video on fifi length."
Here we have a classic example of not being able to think ......
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Morgan
Trad climber
East Coast
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Set it up so it is optimal for being in the second step like Chris shows. You could always use the quick draw (the way the video shows for topstepping) as the "quick clip" for when you are gaining your 3rd step if the fifi is now too short.
(If you set the fifi up exactly right for being in your second step, what happens when you are just hanging off the fifi in the aider biner. Are your feet kicking in the air, not able to reach back down to the third step?) If that's the case maybe you would do better with some aiders that had less distance between the steps (Metolius 8-step, Yates, perhaps).
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Things to try:
1. Adjustable daisy so you have lots of adjustment, often no fifi is needed.
2. Use two tethers, one for second stepping, and one for top stepping. Chris Mac somewhere advocated a fifi length setup for second stepping, and a draw for top stepping. So while in the second step he clips the draw in, pops the fifi, and top steps in one deft manuever (requires practice, and just the right length draw). Some older literature advocates either a biner chain, or two tied supertape slings dedicated for this.
3. T-off per Ron Oh-my-god-his-last-name-is-too-hard-to-spell-damnit. He uses no fifi/diasy as I recall. It's been awhile since I tried his style, but for shorter folks it might be the way to go. I just don't see how he avoids losing his aiders if a piece unexpectedly pops?
4. Try russian aiders. The camming action of your knee cuff greatly reduces the need for tension from a fifi/draw.
For the record I'm 5'9", and mostly use adjustable daisies with russian aid cuffs. I hate fifi's and have not used them in years. I try lots of setups at the crag pretty regularly and frequently tweak my rig based on what I learn from those outings. I make a lot of my own aid gear to allow experimentation (i.e. my own russian aiders, alpine aiders with integrated russian aid trees, adjustable daisies, etc).
Go to the crag, fix a pitch of gear, and aid toprope the crap out of it until you have a sequence and rig you are happy with. Intentionally try out many different systems as well. You will quickly find out that there are dozens of variations as to what people use and how people aid climb, the worst of which are the ones that someone copied from a book/video and never tried to optimize to match their personal quirks.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Here we have a classic example of not being able to think ......
and here we have a classic example of werner's irritating hiccups.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Yeah, posting a snarky reply is sometimes hard to resist but I'm usually glad that I did.
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Yosemite, CA
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I use an adjustible fifi. I think it is the best. Mine is made by Kong and I load it with 6 mil cord. I am 5'2". Has worked great for me for over 30 Yosemite Big Walls.
HB
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Or use 2 fifis. One short, one long.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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The fifi example shown above by Holly is the way to go.
Do you find that cord smooth enough, Holly? I've yet to find one I really like.
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WBraun
climber
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The snarky reply works almost every time.
It draws out the more competent posters to reply in a manner that that answers the question in a nice reasonable method to offset the snark.
Never underestimate to what's up ......
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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People email me all the time, because they are afraid of getting snarked here on McTopo. I answer every email I get.
Kong-Bonatti adjustable fifi is emphatically the way to go, but rig it with slippery 6mm cord, not 7mm as it suggests.
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scrappy
Social climber
California
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I use regular fifi as closed, as I could get to my belay loop.
And Adjustable Kong B if I need to as a back up, specially on over hanging walls. Practice Practice Practice
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Personally I quickly came to hate the adjustable fifi. 7mm cord feeds horribly. 6mm cord would occasionally pop by the other strand, dropping me backward 18" to the stopper knot. After cleaning out my trousers I tossed the POS into the Box-O-Shame with all the other crap gear I have accumulated.
Mostly I really like the Yates adjustable daisies, just replace them often, and bring a spare strap in case it wears out mid-wall. No-fifi necessary for me.
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Yosemite, CA
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In regards to Mark's question about the cord, (This will sound dumb, but...) you cannot use Bluewater cord in your adjustible fifi. And that is what they sell at the Mtn shop. Its way too stiff. I have a spool of Sterling- it works great. The cord lasts between 15-25 pitches, so on a big wall I usually bring a backup cord and if I have "had it" with the cord that day, I'll swap it in the bivy. Or swap it before the climb and it should last the whole wall. This is for a pure aid route. It could last lots of runs up the Nose because I am hardly using it on the Nose. Its really great at belays as you can put yourself exactly where you want to be. I might be in my belay seat and take a little tension from the fifi to be comfortable. Also often useful for lower outs and other tricks.
Once the cord gets too stiff to move the fifi efficiently it can be really frustrating! That is why I either start a big wall with a new cord or a backup available.
As the poster above mentioned - the 6 mill cord can roll, allowing the cord to slip. However, I have a visual on it all the time (I'm using it right?) and I adjust it if needed. Its lowered me a couple of times. Bummer but no big deal. Hasn't released on me in a few years...experience I would say.
I sometimes use my fifi as a "third aider". I'll have two pieces in and put in the third and fifi in direct to the top piece. This is for awkward or other odd situations, not the basic aid sequence. Its also super useful when aiding an awkward deep crack - think the awkward pitch up to Grey Ledges - fifi in with the fifi very long and keep yourself and all your "work" outside the deep crack and hopefully around the lip, much better than clipping in your aider to the cam that's way back in the depths. Its all around very handy.
An adjustible daisy strap from Yates is a similar alternative. My wall partner Lorna uses a regular fifi and one Yates daisy strap (not as a substitute for her regular daisies though). The advantage to the fifi is it gets you higher (the yates strap has a biner, so you lose a couple inches there) and the fifi often works in tight situations where you don't have room to clip in another biner. For example, when I am top stepping on the steep and the bolt (lets say) is already full, its easier to get a fifi in the top of the bolt to use to pull up on then it would be to get in the biner on the end of a Yates daisy strap. And in the normal aid sequence you will not get "biner shift" if you have a fifi clipped to your top aider, but if you have both your "bottom" aider and your Yates daisy strap clipped into the top aider, you will get biner shift. (scary and annoying)
Finally, the fifi usually disconnects on its own when you move to the higher piece (usually a good thing!) and that saves you a step. If you are using a Yates strap, you have to take the motion and effort to unclip it from the piece. When I am doing strenous moves and maybe going up and down a little, I have to keep an eye on my fifi, lest I un-fifi and lean back (which hasn't happended but sure could). But generally, this unclipping itself feature is pretty key. As you move up, you don't have to make a special step of unclipping a fifi. Especially good if switching from aid to free.
HB
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I failed to mention that when using slippery 6mm cord, you should get into the habit of tying a slipknot in the free end of the cord after you tighten up, to prevent the thing from inverting and sending you flying.
You only need an adjustable daisy on steep and hard aid. If the aid climbing is neither hard nor steep, you can usually get by with just your adjustable daisy or a non-adjustable fifi. But when you have to get that extra reach on harder and steeper aid, and need to get into your topsteps and need to be able to adjust the tension on your downward-pointing fifi, you will find its adjustability very useful. I certainly couldn't climb hard aid without it, although climb easy pitches without it all the time.
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Yosemite, CA
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Yes, 5'7" is short for aid climbing.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Three of the best aid climbers I know are 5'4" girls. [Cute, too....]
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Gimme a fricken break, 5' 2.5" is just fine for aid climbing (I didn't have any problems reaching the rivets on Tribal Rite, a route put up by three guys all 6 foot plus)!
I'll bet my center of gravity makes it easier for me to get higher in my steps than a taller person. I pretty much live in my top step and am quite often in the hero step above it.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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"I'll bet my center of gravity makes it easier for me to get higher in my steps than a taller person."
Low low centre of gravity on that boy. They don't call him Mark Hugedong for nothin'.
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mawk
Big Wall climber
Hugo, MN
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Mark,
I too, have trouble getting the cord to slide smoothly through my adjustable fifi. But since I got it at the Mtn Shop, Holly has revealed the reason. I shall look elsewhere.
Thanks Holly
Mark
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