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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 1, 2010 - 05:49pm PT
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March 2010 is the 400th anniversary of the publication of Galileo Galilei's Siderius Nuncius, or The Starry Messenger, a foundation of modern science. In 1609 Galileo built a telescope with about 3X magnifying power, and early in 1610 observed the the four main moons of Jupiter, the topography of the moon (particularly at the terminator), and far more stars than were visible to the naked eye. He wrote up his discoveries in the Starry Messenger, which definitively contradicted Aristotelian geocentric cosmology, and provided evidence for the heliocentric theory advanced by Nicholas Copernicus in his De revolutionibus orbium coelestium of 1542. (Aristarchus first suggested the concept of a heliocentric universe in the 3rd century BCE.)
Galileo received a hero's welcome when he visited Rome in 1611, as he continued to make observations to support heliocentrism, such as the phases of Venus. (Many Jesuits in particular were quite supportive of science, especially astronomy.) However, over the next few years opposition to it grew in the Catholic church, and eventually Galileo was persecuted for his beliefs, eventually being charged with heresy. He spent much of the last decade of his life under house arrest, and blind.
It took the church until 1992 to issue its regrets for its treatment of Galileo, and it is now planning to erect a monument to him within the Vatican.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereus_Nuncius
You can read lots more about Galileo, who is considered a if not the father of modern science, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
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MH2
climber
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Aristarchus using the orbit of the moon to triangulate an estimate for the distance to the sun is quite the example of how good ideas operate over large differences in scale.
He found that the sun is at least 400 times further from Earth than the Moon, which took until later than Galileo to improve on.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2010 - 09:14pm PT
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Apparently there is less interest here in science and history than I'd hoped. Worth one bump, perhaps. With pretty picture, of one of Jupiter's four Galilean moons, Io.
The seven dwarfs referred to this moon in their famous song "Io, Io, it's off to work we go".
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Big Moon Bump
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Interesting that the Vatican plans to post a statue of him inside that domain.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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so non controversial
sounds good to me.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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A recent Astronomy magazine also now attributes his observation of the double star, Mizar (second star from the end in the Big Dipper).
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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Galileo would have been astonished had he known that not much more than 350 years after his death, we would have sent a satellite to orbit Jupiter, and know so much about the universe.
As he was a European, he'd approve of the name of this moon.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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blasphemy! -- for the universe clearly revolves around me!
once i decide which bolge of the inferno to damn you to, i'll be in touch. the fact that you'll share it with the Jesuits will prove agony enough. i've emailed my pal Jack the Jesuit to ask what bolge he and his like are doomed to. i'll send you there. (never play poker with an actual Jesuit, you'll loose, big time...)
~~~
from what i've read, Galileo's telescope had a 37mm objective lens and a focal length of 980mm. the original eyepiece has been lost, but from his notes it seems it was a plano-concave 22mm with a focal length of about 50 mm.
it looked like this:
remarkable... a current pair of $25 binocs from the local bobmart would blow the doors off those specs. and yet, good luck finding, let alone charting over time, the moons of jupiter with it. i've tried (in locations far better than Padua) -- and mostly failed. and with centuries of big science between me and Galileo, i knew precisely what to look for. sheesh! the remarkable dedication and patience of that man, to do the work, just then... simply magnificent.
i'm not so sure if it was his charts of the moons of jupiter:
or his charts of the phases of venus:
that made it click for him. but i am rather certain that the vatican didn't pause to check out his science. it was simply the fact that he allowed for (let alone gave evidence for) heliotropism -- that got him in the, er, dog house...
cheers to MH for reminding us.
so, like get out your bobmart optics and get out there and find what Galileo did. why take his word for it? though be warned: not easy, not obvious, and takes beaucoup patience.
Go Dogs, Go!
^,,^
~~~~
and yes, MH2, Aristarchus beat him to it -- using no gear at all and even more mental horsepower. as such he deserves righteous credit for both. but unlike Galileo, Aristarchus was not risking eternal damnation (as then regulated) nor putting his head in the noose, to express his genius. so i myself find both Aristarchus and Galileo equally magnificent, both in their own ways, in their own times.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Now look at you Mighty Anders!! "Apparently there is less interest here in science and history than I'd hoped"
NEVER underestimate the Taco.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2010 - 11:39pm PT
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Galileo's first telescope, built in 1608 - 09 once news of the discoveries in the Low Countries arrived, had a magnification of about three. His later telescopes had a magnification of about 30. He had the audacity not only to turn that primitive thing to the heavens, but to tie his observations to Copernicus' theory. Amazing that he was able to observe what he did, including observations of Neptune more than two centuries before it was officially discovered. He went blind late in life, but was then well over 70, although no doubt dark nights and peering in telescopes and at books hadn't helped.
More about Aristarchus at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos
No one seems to have liked my little joke. I may have to moon you all again.
Apparently Ed, and jstan, and rgold, and the other usual scientists, are busy at the moment.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Mighty Hiker:
> Galileo would have been astonished had he known that not much more than
> 350 years after his death, we would have sent a satellite to orbit
> Jupiter, and know so much about the universe.
i myself think that to date we still know tw#t about the universe.
i think we are way too fast to congratulate ourselves for all the kewl stuff we have figured out to date -- and we figure there ain't all that much more to figure.
i suspect that cockroaches also have the equivalent of Nobel Prize award ceremonies -- only they've yet to invite us. more likely, they've been inviting us for eons, only we haven't yet figured out how to read their invitations (what being so busy congratulating ourselves on our massiveness).
man as the measure of all things... bwaahaaahaaahaaa (&etc)
sheesh,
^,,^
edit: twhat? just checkin...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2010 - 12:46am PT
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Yes, there's lots still to learn - but we know much more than Galileo did.
Anyway, as no one seems to be enjoying my witticisms, last night was the full moon. Therefore:
A Supercallistofragilisticexpialidocious moon if ever there was one.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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It turns out the Chinese had this stuff already figured out before our European ancestors did.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Mighty,
We're not all drool-slobbering morons without a shred of
reverence for science. Some of us drool-slobbered morons
really want to believe that the world isn't flat.
I just wonder where within the bowels of the Vatican they're
gonna plant the tribute.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2010 - 01:51am PT
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Yes, the Chinese (and Indians, and Arabs...) knew a lot about the world and science, although Joseph Needham, and some Chinese propagandists, may have gotten a little carried away with their theories about just how much. But by the 17th century Europe started to take a significant lead in science, technology, and engineering, the reasons for which continue to fascinate historians. I don't believe that there are any records that the Chinese invented the telescope, or discovered the moons of Jupiter. The history of science and technology is very interesting.
And (roll of Jovian thunder) our last moon for tonight.
The largest moon in the solar system, indeed, larger than Mercury. Galileo wanted to name the four moons the Medicean Stars, after his patron. That didn't catch on, and eventually Johannes Kepler and Simon Marius suggested the present names, although they weren't widely accepted until the 20th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganymede_(moon);
Jupiter has 63 known moons, all with names from classical literature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Jupiter
I haven't thought of a witticism or pun incorporating Ganymede yet, but am working on it.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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so, um, coach -- what's the link between:
Supercallistofragilisticexpialidocious
and...
Adrastea
Aitne
Amalthea
Ananke
Aoede
Arche
Autonoe
Callirrhoe
Callisto
Carme
Carpo
Chaldene
Cyllene
Elara
Erinome
Euanthe
Eukelade
Euporie
Europa
Eurydome
Ganymede
Harpalyke
Hegemone
Helike
Hermippe
Herse
Himalia
Io
Iocaste
Isonoe
Kale
Kallichore
Kalyke
Kore
Leda
Lysithea
Megaclite
Metis
Mneme
Orthosie
Pasiphaë
Pasithee
Praxidike
Sinope
Sponde
Taygete
Thebe
Thelxinoe
Themisto
Thyone
[and, um, "All The Young Dudes":]
S/2000 J 11
S/2003 J 10
S/2003 J 12
S/2003 J 15
S/2003 J 16
S/2003 J 18
S/2003 J 19
S/2003 J 2
S/2003 J 23
S/2003 J 3
S/2003 J 4
S/2003 J 5
S/2003 J 9
???????
ok, so far i got Callisto -- still working on the rest of 'supercallistofragilisticexpialidocious'...
is Will Shortz involved in this? if i actually figure it out (small chance) -- do i get the lapel pin, the 11th Edition Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary and Thesaurus, the Scrabble Deluxe Edition... a date with Liane Hansen?
if not, i'm gonna give up and go to sleep.
^,,^
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2010 - 02:36am PT
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so, um, coach -- what's the link between: Supercallistofragilisticexpialidocious and the other 59 moons of Jupiter?
None. And I'm not nobody's coach.
1. Io = "Io, Io, it's off to work we go".
2. Europa = Galileo was European.
3. Callisto = Supercallistofragilisticexpialidocious
4. Ganymede = in progress
I can't imagine doing the other 59. But it's kind of fun playing with words, and maybe livening up the subject a bit.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Paradise Island
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One night when Dr. Deeb, Guido, McClinsky, Hennek, Cohen, and others were in the remote Hindu Kush in 1974, I passed my 7 X 50 binos to some of our porters/locals and showed them the moons of Jupiter and made them to understand that those moons were similar to the Earth's one moon. I cannot express the AMAZEMENT that they conveyed to each other and to us as they kept on passing the binos around the circle...
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Wow Anders,
Excellent thread and photos!
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