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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 10, 2010 - 03:22am PT
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There is an interesting article in Scientific American online in which noted Everest historian Tom Holzel thinks he may have spotted Sandy Irvine's body through the use of hi-res photography:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=mount-everest-mystery
Only time will tell.
Bruce
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 10, 2010 - 06:56am PT
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Thanks for the reference. I read everything I can about Mallory and Irvine and keep hoping that by some miracle they made it.
Some of Holzel's information has been published on everest.net already along with many other theories. His is the first new theory to come along for quite a while however and the technology is impressive.
For sure, all my Sherpa friends know to keep looking for an old climber and old cameras. They're well aware that the cameras are worth big money!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 10, 2010 - 10:29am PT
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Bullpuckey.
Strive to learn.
(I thought it was cool when they figured out what happened to Everett Ruess, for example.)
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:13am PT
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Holzel has done exhaustive research and many of his theories are quite intriguing but, I think his presumed timeline is an unsupportable assumption.
What I've always wanted to know is exactly how many bottles of gas were stashed at C6. How many bottles were there before, during and after Mallory and Irvine's summit attempt? And how many are accounted for? Many folks have assumed that the O2 apparatus parts inside their tent meant that they had problems and a late start. I've always considered that they had an equal chance of an early start and that Irvine may have rigged triple tanks for the summit assault. You can see pictures from the expedition of Irvine with a triple tank rig. I also think it was equally possible that in an effort to maintain national pride the Chinese may have removed or destroyed potential evidence. One Chinese climber acknowledged moving an old O2 tank uphill. Why would you, at high altitude, carry an empty cylinder UP?
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quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:14am PT
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If I were a Sherpa who had lived a half-starved hand-to-mouth existence, I'd do anything to get the camera to provide for my family.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:15am PT
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I'm currently reading The Beckoning Silence by Joe Simpson. I'm not sure what should have been done with Mallory's body, but Joe is quite down on Conrad Anker, et al for what he would describe as pillaging Mallory's body. He claims that what they did to Mallory's remains forever changes the ideal that his family, friends and fans would have had all of these years. He was particularly down on the writing that was done, telling what the birds had done to the body, and what the guys that found the body did to have prove that it was Mallory.
Any chance of just letting Irvine RIP on Everest??
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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I wouldn't be down on Conrad Anker.
No matter WHAT one does in that position there will be endless criticism.
I saw the display at the Nat Geo building and spoke to some of the people involved and got the impression that appropriate respect was given. Its fascinating stuff really. Archeologists with moral imperatives deal with similar issues.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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mystery is better than the facts
I'd personally rather the facts 99.99% of the time, why live by speculations?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:30am PT
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More compelling to me than the missing camera (or possibly cameras) is the missing photograph.
The one that was known to be neatly wrapped in silks and carefully stashed in Mallory's breast pocket. The portrait of his ever-so patient wife. The photo that he had vowed to leave only on the summit. When found and respectfully searched it was gone. So unless Conrad swiped it for a souvenir where did it go? Doesn't seem in character that he would leave it at a high point. Neither does it seem likely that his dying effort would be to toss his wife's picture to the wind. The other thing that gets neglected when considering IF Mallory could have climbed the 2nd step is the amount of snow up there in those years. Pictures from the early British recons and expeditions invariably show a much snowier Everest than we see these days. Deep snow could have greatly shortened the height of the now infamous 2nd ladder facilitating a much easier ascent than in latter years.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:38am PT
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mystery is better than the facts
I'd personally rather the facts 99.99% of the time, why live by speculations? Yeah, who pooped on the Wings of Steel gear? I've been blaming Royal Robbins for too long.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:43am PT
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Those in the know are reconciled to the fact that Mallory and
Irvine descended from the South Col to the NE and were kidnapped
by lesbian Yetis for use as boy toys.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:43am PT
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Your statement seemed fairly generalized, hence my generalized response.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:47am PT
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the rise of reductionism in it's perjorative form is the result of curiosity run amok. yup. though I think we all have some level of that curiosity. "It's the question that drives us"
I know why you're here, Neo. I know what you've been doing... why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night, you sit by your computer. You're looking for him. I know because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn't really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us. It's the question that brought you here. You know the question, just as I did."
"What is the Matrix?
though I'm not so wed to Everest as to be vested in this particular mystery. Though they probably fired it. :)
now, for the Sierra Nevada, I like having the idea of hidden peaks and faces that still need be found and climbed. Without that, I'm not sure I would be more than a gym climber. NTTIAWWT
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:51am PT
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Conrad is a good egg. Just knowing the man, I have complete cofidence that he treated Mallory's remains with utter respect. Incidently, I have, read the book.
As far as Irvine, I'm pretty much with DMT, though if there is a camera bring it down!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:53am PT
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Thanks Reilly! It's good to finally put this mystery to bed as it were.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Yeah, Philo, I think we realize the real mystery is
the whereabouts of the luv chillen.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
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While I prefer to respect the fallen and leave them at rest, at some point in time it no longer is a grave or resting place, but an archaeological site. The transition point is when intrigue and/or greed intersect with discovery. Considering the historical precedent of pillaging the graves of kings and cavemen, why would Everest be any different, especially when so many people are focused on it. Imagine the media circus and cover stories. Heros and fortunes will be made.
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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Yes do not solve the mysteries lest there be no more mysteries to solve. Do not search for all knowledge for there will be no more to learn. Do not continue inventing or there will be nothing left to invent.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
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Reilly, the whereabouts of the luv chillen yes that is a good mystery. But I think it possible that they are the origins of the Oompa Loompas. Or maybe Tribbles. Either way let's all look away lest we see anything.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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Good post DMT
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