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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 14, 2010 - 12:05pm PT
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Here is a pretty good link from the New York Times on Da Hui and the Wolf Pak, with references to "Bustin down the Door". There are a bunch of surfers here and it seems that the subject is appreciated. Anyway the video explores a bit of what really happens within surfing culture in the Islands--- the puglistic territoriality and obtuse disrespect of the two factions there--- the locals and the visitors. I was born there and it has just gotten weirder and more malevolent since. Basically an unsolvable problem. I suppose if there were 50 times more waves there wouldn't be issues but there never are enough, only rarely.
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/01/22/sports/othersports/1231545957469/surfing-s-dark-side-on-the-north-shore.html
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Jan 14, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
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Yeah, being blonde there kinda sucks.
Sometimes it doesn't matter how much respect you show.
On my first paddle out I got vibed by a 10 year old.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 14, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
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Cool link, Peter!
Just imagine that JT was all the climbing available and we would likely have similar crowding problems. I have heard of fist fights at Smith Rock because of crowding and route jumping. Not much of a stretch really once any sense of entitlement enters the picture.
Hey haole boy, you want beef?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jan 14, 2010 - 12:23pm PT
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Wow, that's a good video.
Kinda like climbers if you read between the lines!
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2010 - 12:27pm PT
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True enough Fatty. We have stuff like this even in Santa Cruz. I guess you were around for the Mickey Dora period in Malibu?? I remember beach fights and crap happening in the parking lots even back in the sixties, there. And it really is about there never are enough waves and guys are get so pumped up too, by the sport. They think a fight is just another wave, when actually it could mean death and 3 years in court and then maybe some "time".
Steve G, yeah. I have always drawn a parallel at least in my mind, between surfing and climbing, especially since I did so much of both back then. Great crosstraining--- the cardio of bigger wave surfing is indispensable for climbing, along with all that paddling (lat's get so strong, great for offwidth and all climbing).
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Jan 14, 2010 - 12:36pm PT
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"What are you JOJ? FOB?"
"Go back to Arizona haole, don't mess with local girl."
Being from AZ, I have never lived down the Rick Kane thing.
"No one rides a twin fin in Hawaii"
I did!!!
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jan 14, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
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Yeah, I use to body surf a lot in the 70's in Orange and San Diego counties, a particular beach in Encinitas we use to park far from the beach and walk in due to the fact that we would be constantly hassled by the surfers and cars would be vandilzed when we were in the water. I remember an incident in Yosemite when the Hall of Mirrors was going up that certain climbers would hassle the climbers and vandilize cars. Not cool, but it does and did happen.
Peace
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 14, 2010 - 12:47pm PT
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sentence seems light for a fight ending in death
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 14, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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Like you said Peter, it's been going on a long time, and is basically an unsolvable problem. Any nervous anticipation in regards to my first venture to the NS was in regards to the inevitable encounter with a moke's disenfranchised grief...not getting caught inside in huge surf. All my friends had their individual horror story, even back in the late 60's early 70's.
Thanks for the link!
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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Jan 14, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
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Thanks Peter - Brings out the pseudo anthropologist, historian, and preacher in me, but I'll control myself.
The North San County Surf Scene in the Seventies was friendly place to surf, even for newbies and occasional hacks, like myself. But it didn't take long for me to realize the beaches closer to San Diego had much more aggression floating on the water. When I moved to San Luis Obispo, the colder water, rocks, stronger currents and miniscule population made the surfers very bonded and generally looking out for one another. As much as I abhor, the violence, I can understand the issues of respect. Across the board, when respect is gone, all hell breaks loose. Okay I preached a l little.
Steve, there were some flare-ups at Smith in the Eighties, especially over "stolen" projects, yet for the most part, the energy was extremely positive, everybody literally cheering each other on. Some will grit their teeth hearing me say this, but the tone was magnanimous, and very much recalled the creative dynamics and "reaching" I experienced in the Stonemaster Era in California, except the emphasis was placed on discovering the limits of pure difficulty. I'm only touching the surface of this subject, of course.
I do recall one amusing story at Smith related to fisticuffs, told to me by its protagonist, who I'll call "RC":
It was common for climbers to leave ropes hanging on projects. Climber's of course respected the ropes, the ends of which were usually gathered just overhead. During one period, a local high school kid, not a climber managed to steal several ropes during off hours, but finally RC observed the thievery first hand in one of the more remote spots. "RC" proceeded to drag the kid to every single group of climbers at the main spots of the park that day, and punched the kid in the face at each stop after declaring aloud, "this is the thief!"
edit: Ron G.--really, at Encinitas!? That makes me mad!
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2010 - 01:27pm PT
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I remember back in the late sixties, an expert haole visiting surfer and his girlfriend had a tent and camp near one of the beaches on Oahu. There was some kind of territory issue in the water that came up (as always) and at some point the girlfriend was gangraped and then her vagina was fiberglassed over.
When I surfed Makaha in 1980/81 in the Wa'ianae---the west side--- it was all the time a business of male aggro, sorting out the situation, tension and latent violence, even when it was only about 6 feet and not worth fighting over.
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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Jan 14, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
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Warchild would like to remind you:
GO BACK TO THE VALLEY!
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FeelioBabar
Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
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Jan 14, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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"and then her vagina was fiberglassed over."...WTF!!!!!!!!!!!
That has to be BS or urban legend...please tell me it is Peter.
I find Surfer attitude one of the lamest of any sport...I know the waves are a finite resource...but the attitude in the line up is beyond bullsh#t, in my opinion.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 14, 2010 - 01:40pm PT
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Surfing attitude sucks. Cannon Beach, Oregon one of the worse places. The aholes will vandalize your car and your belongings behind your back for surfing a remote and unpopulated spot. At least in Hawaii, they will usually tell you to your face. In Hawaii, by being a little humble and by showing respect for the locals, you can usually slide by. Not to say there isn't some local jerk out to make himself look tough. Best to be lowkey and back down whether you were right or wrong dropping in and say Sorry brah and offer a handshake. That will usually get you back on the water with no hard feelings. Show respect, get respect works MOST of the time.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Jan 14, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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There are Surf Rage laws now.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Jan 14, 2010 - 02:29pm PT
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I thought this as going to be about tow-in "surfing" *
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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I know Aldude! That is a whole 'nother subject, isn't it.
No F-Babar, it was an actual event. I think there was even more to it than that, too, something about what happened to the guy also.
Surfing is kind of unique in that there are only just so many good waves in a day's best hours. Sometimes when the place is not really "going off" there might only be a couple an hour even. And you might have 50-100 surfers out.... soooo... it can get horrid. The sport is also strange in that waves only last seconds, not hours or days like climbing and other sports. There is a lot of maneuvering and paddling and scamming and showing influence and so forth for hours, for those few seconds....even stranger. And it is an easy-entry sport, all you need is a board, maybe a wetsuit and leash, and just a beater car. So most anyone can be a part of the scene, somehow.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Jan 14, 2010 - 02:48pm PT
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Once I picked up a hitch-hiker surfer in Santa Cruz and drove him all the way up to Ano. He wouldn't engage in conversation the whole way. Just one word answers. He knew I was from the valley I guess.
A couple days later I was out, so was he, with three of his local buddies.
3o minutes later they forced me out of the water (basically not letting me catch any waves, crowding me at the take off, near misses, grabbing my leash). That's just how it is. It sucks.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Jan 14, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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I got heckled in Big Sur for NOT wearing booties!
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