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bikebarnwill
Sport climber
Penticton, BC
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 27, 2009 - 05:42pm PT
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It is 9 degrees celsius (48F) here today.....definitely warm enough....too bad it isn't a long weekend up here.
Although direct sun, humidity and wind can make a big difference for comfort....is there some cut off line where the most climbers find it too cold to go touch a bare hand to the rock?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
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Gotta be at least 65F, or no go. Same with water temp. Under 65 furgedaboutit.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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About minus 20 F is pretty unpleasant.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:47pm PT
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Big difference between Sun and Shade
I've climbed Yosemite in a T shirt during every month of the year
Seek Rays
Peace
Karl
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Anastasia
Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:56pm PT
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Anything that is not the standard for a Mediterranean environment.
The only time I can handle other situations is if I am being physically active (you hands only hurt once) and... if I am near "The Human Heater." My personal unit melts holes in glaciers while he sleeps.
AFS
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Nov 27, 2009 - 06:57pm PT
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same with Baba...
At this point, almost anything below 65 degrees is unpleasant for me, and may cause severe shivering (I got low BMI.. almost no fat)
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Nov 27, 2009 - 07:05pm PT
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Cold!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Nov 27, 2009 - 09:46pm PT
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I'll go out whenever, if someone that I like wants to. But I might not like it....
In reality, my idea of the low side of good for climbing is mid 50's with little to no wind. Sunshine makes a big difference and allows me to handle lower temps. Conversely, a hangdogging partner seems to accentuate whatever unattractive quality the weather may have.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 27, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
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To cold to go to Tahquitz tomorrow.
Check your email Jeff.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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Nov 27, 2009 - 10:34pm PT
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friction is excellent at 40F and under
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 28, 2009 - 12:01am PT
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An acquaintance was whining at the gym yesterday that he couldn't find partners to go out for real rock climbing. His idea of perfect was 35-to-40 degrees (about 2-to-5 C), but I think he was talking about overhanging sport climbs cuz that's all that's climbable up here (Seattle area) in the winter.
In the past I never minded much what the temp was as long as the rock was dry, but that was in the past. Now I'm as wimpy as anyone else.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 28, 2009 - 01:14am PT
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How cold is too cold? How far is too far? How high is too high? And my favorite, how bad is too bad? And my next favorite, how dumb is too dumb?
"When will we stop having so much fun?"
Zippy, the Pinhead.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Nov 28, 2009 - 01:17am PT
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Yep those CA climbers....Have their ice climbing NF coats on to even "Struggle" up a 5.4 on whitney in July...Let alone the Diamond...At minus 20F the ice and the metal in your tools starts to get "Phunky". You bend your glove and you can feel the pain in the cold. Your rope is stiff and your whole being is sucked into this small little 'I want to survive", and get out of this mentality. I've worked at that Temp more then the few times I've climbed in it and it hurts. But I'm knott a crazy Canook living in El Paso..... Peace Radical, Fairveiw was cold when we did it.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Nov 28, 2009 - 12:26pm PT
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when will the questions cease?
when will the search subside?
for to grow up is to become excetping of your reality.
because it is forever exhausting to quarell with complacency
and become like the wind seeking a moment of unique density.
the wonder in my head is living me. though, in living im dieing.
as we all are.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Nov 28, 2009 - 04:12pm PT
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Here's an article of interest: http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF13/1323.html
The Skinny on Humans and the Cold
Article #1323
by Ned Rozell
This article is provided as a public service by the Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska Fairbanks, in cooperation with the UAF research community. Ned Rozell is a science writer at the institute.
I've heard that Alaska mountain-climbing legend John Waterman prepared for a solo winter ascent of Denali by lying in a tub filled with ice water. Whether Waterman's chilly soak is fact or embellishment, the ice bath nonetheless inspired me to research the cold tolerance of humans.
Over the years, many people have shed their clothes for the sake of human cold-tolerance research. Many of those people were in the Army or the Air Force. Military leaders were interested in ways to prepare infantryman for cold-weather warfare in the Arctic. Other studies were performed out of pure interest, such as several by the late Laurence Irving, a well-known Alaska scientist.
Irving, a former professor of zoophysiology at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, in 1960 noticed with great curiosity two UAF students who walked around campus barefoot, even in winter. In accordance with their religious beliefs, the students wore only light clothing and wore no shoes or socks. Irving detailed the study in his book, Arctic Life of Birds and Mammals, Including Man.
Irving convinced the students to sit for him in a room cooled to about 32 degrees. The students were allowed to wear light clothing, and Irving measured the temperatures of their fingers, toes and chest as they sat for an hour and studied.
For comparison, Irving recruited a "vigorous young airman" to undergo the same test. After 30 minutes, "the airman's toes became so painful and he began to shiver so violently that I caused him to terminate the test lest he shake himself apart," Irving wrote.
The students who walked barefoot on snow every day didn't begin shivering until after almost 50 minutes in the room. Irving also noticed the cold-adapted students were very conscious of what happened to their bodies, unlike the numb airman. Their fingers and toes experienced cycles of cooling and warming. Every time their fingers and toes dropped to about 50 degrees, the students felt a tingling of warmth, which was followed by a steady rise in the temperatures of their fingers and toes to about 68 degrees.
The study was an illustration of how humans can acclimate their bodies to cold weather and eventually feel little pain while walking barefoot in the snow, Irving wrote.
Human beings can be considered tropical animals, according to Jacques LeBlanc, a Canadian physiologist who wrote "Man in the Cold." Since no studies have been published on what temperatures a human can reach before perishing, LeBlanc wrote that unclothed humans can be compared to rats, who freeze to death when temperatures drop to about 5 degrees Fahrenheit.
Among LeBlanc's studies was the long-debated question of whether fat people stay warmer than skinny people. LeBlanc persuaded six people with varying waistlines to strip naked and endure a temperature of 50 degrees for over an hour. LeBlanc found that a man carrying four inches of subcutaneous (just under the skin) fat didn't start shivering until standing for an hour. A man with less than an inch of body fat started shivering after just 20 minutes. Studies on swimmers of the English Channel also showed that swimmers with more fat had higher body temperatures as they swam than did thinner swimmers. LeBlanc concluded that subcutaneous fat acts as an insulator that retains body heat.
Rather than soaking in a glacial tub, perhaps John Waterman could have gorged himself to achieve the same warming effect. But then he'd have to carry all that insulation up the mountain.
_
I went barefoot all one winter in Arcata, CA. After a month of painfully cold endurance my feet became warm and even freezing water felt pleasantly cool. I read about fish filleters experiencing the same with their hands. After a painful month their bodies adapted to the cold and their hands were just fine in the icy conditions.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Nov 28, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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"Lynn Cox took the record for the longest swim recorded in the coldest water conditions. In l987 at the age of 30 years she was able to tolerate, unharmed and under close medical supervision a 2.5 mile swim that separates the Diomede Islands in the Arctic Ocean. The water temperature was recorded around 44F (6-8 C) where she remained until completion for 2 hours and 6 minutes.
On December 13, 2003, at the age of 46 years Lynn Cox was able to swim 1500 meters in 22 minutes in the Antarctic Ocean in 36F water. Two days later she swam 1900 meters in 33 F water in 25 minutes. She recovered unharmed. Her body temperature was measured at 35.2F when she stepped ashore and it normalized after one hour. She was accompanied by observers and Emergency Room physicians. This feat was accomplished wearing only a bathing suit, cap and goggles"
Also of interest, the incredible cold water swims of Lewis Pugh:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/britishborn-ice-bear-braves-frozen-waters-for-worldrecord-challenge-519671.html
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Nov 28, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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Yoga heat generation: http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Tumo/id/578647
Tumo (also spelled Tummo, or Tum-mo ) is a Tibetan term for an advanced type of meditation practiced by those wishing to attain enlightenment within a single lifetime. Tummo practice can cause an intense sensation of body heat to arise. Tummo is taught as one part of the six yogas of Naropa. Stories and eyewitness accounts
abound of yogi practitioners being able to generate sufficient heat to dry wet sheets draped around their naked bodies while sitting outside in the freezing cold, not just once, but multiple times. These observations have also been discussed in medical studies (Ding-E Young and Taylor, 1998).
One of the most famous practioners of tumo was perhaps the Tibetan Buddhist saint, Milarepa[1]. The biography
of Milarepa is one of the most popular among the Tibetan people (Evans-Wentz, 2001). Modern western witnesses of this practice include the adventurer Alexandra David-Neel (David-Neel, 1971), and Lama Anagarika Govinda (Govinda, 1988).
While the practice could be said to have some practical benefit in the frigid climate of Tibet, it cannot be said to be cultivated merely for the sake of keeping warm, but is rather a side-effect of a religiously oriented intensive meditation
practice, and is understood to be the outward manifestation of an inward state of religious ecstasy or Yogic Enlightenment. Similar experiences of a mystic fire have also been described among practitioners of other contemplative paths, such as the Sufi Irina Tweedie, and among practitioners of Kundalini Yoga.
An attempt to study the physiological effects of tumo has been made by Benson and colleagues (Benson et.al, 1982; Cromie, 2002) who studied Indo-Tibetan Yogis in the Himalayas and in India in the 1980s. In the first experiment, in Upper Dharamsala (India), Benson et.al (1982) found that these subjects exhibited the capacity to increase the temperature of their fingers and toes by as much as 8.3°C. In the most recent experiment, which was conducted in Normandy (France), two monks from the Buddhist tradition wore sensors that recorded changes in heat production and metabolism (Cromie, 2002).
It is not considered wise to engage in the practice of tumo, or any other intense form of meditation, outside of a proper socio-cultural context (such as a genuine spiritual lineage), without the supervison of a credible teacher, or without thorough psychological and physiological preparation. Intense, or unsupervised forms of meditation, might sometimes lead to substantial meditation-related problems. See Lukoff, Lu & Turner (1998) for more details on these problems.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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I went out today to recon some boulders (and climb some, if possible) and it was Zero degrees F with a -19 wind chill rating. There was no snow on the ground, but dam was that rock cold to the touch--I concentrated on wider stuff, since I didn't take my climbing shoes out with me.
Sent two problems--saw two hundred, not a bad day, but borderline "too cold"
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Then there's Icelandic fisherman Gudlaugur Fridthorsson. In 1984, his boat sank in midwinter off the coast. He swam in freezing water (sub-freezing air) in the dark for almost six hours, talking with birds, before he reached the island of Heimaey. "When doctors examined him, they could not find a pulse, and his temperature was too low to register on a medical thermometer."
This was reported in John McPhee's fine book - actually, all of his books are fine - The Control of Nature. http://lahosken.san-francisco.ca.us/new/2006/06/book-report-control-of-nature.html
I believe that McPhee mentioned that Fridthorsson was a stout if not fat fellow.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Bivvied once at -15 or so without a sleeping bag. That was definitely close to too cold. Stayed awake all night wiggling my toes. I was pissed at Don 'cause he was stacking the z's. But then he couldn't feel his toes when he woke. Luckily they came back.
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