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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 7, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
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http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090803005150&newsLang=en
MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--After a successful first winter season, Horizon Air is expanding air service to the Mammoth Mountain resort for the upcoming snow season. In addition to adding a second daily nonstop from Los Angeles, Horizon will offer new daily nonstop service from San Jose and Reno and direct (same-plane, one-stop) service from Seattle and Portland.
The Mammoth Mountain resort area is just 15 minutes from the Mammoth Lakes Yosemite airport. During last year’s inaugural season of service, thousands of Southern Californians took advantage of Horizon's 70-minute flight from Los Angeles instead of enduring five hours or more of driving.
"Our Southern California customers have made no secret of how much they’ve appreciated having such quick and easy access to this world-class recreation area," said Dan Russo, Horizon's vice president of marketing and communications. “Now, with Horizon Air’s expanded service, winter sports enthusiasts from Northern California and the Pacific Northwest will be able to enjoy the same convenience.”
The new service from Northern California and the Pacific Northwest is expected to introduce thousands of new visitors to Mammoth – many of whom would not have considered it for a winter vacation otherwise. Similarly, travelers from the town of Mammoth will gain an easier way to travel, with nonstop service to Los Angeles, Reno and San Jose, and direct (same-plane, one-stop) service to Seattle and Portland.
“The new and expanded routes on Horizon for next season put Mammoth within easy reach of thousands of skiers and snowboarders who love to play big in the mountains and have dreamed of visiting Mammoth for years,” said Howard Pickett, CMO of Mammoth Mountain. "Our guests loved the flights from Los Angeles last year and they asked us for even more flight options. With this expansion into Northern California, Reno and the Pacific Northwest, we are doing our best to deliver on that request."
Horizon is offering special low fares for flights on select days between Mammoth and each city. Fares start at $49 each way from Reno, $69 from San Jose or Los Angeles, $144 from Portland, and $149 from Seattle.
The Mammoth winter season flight schedule shown below will run from Dec. 17, 2009, through April 11, 2010
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apogee
climber
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Wow, they've been trying to make commercial air traffic into Mammoth happen for years...wonder if it will stick, and what the locals think about it?
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Wallaby
climber
the star gazing rock
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wow! and to think that sometimes I would do the 8+ hr. drive from the bay area....
w
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Wow! I didn't even know they had an airport that would support that kinda traffic, or those kinds of planes. I'm sure there's quite a few locals not so happy about this. Wonder what we'll run into the ground after Mammoth?
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apogee
climber
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As I understood it, the major hurdle had to do with the length and type of the runway, and the constant winds on the east side. The current airport was built for smaller craft, but was upgraded at some point. Will be interested to hear from an informed local on this...
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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Driving is a better idea.
If your car breaks, you can just pull over.
A plane......not so much.
Those Horizon planes are Swedish prop jobs.
Have fun!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2009 - 08:57pm PT
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Prop = scare factor 9
especially in winter
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Wish they wouldn't.
Actually I'm surprised they were approved for more flights after (I think) the environmentalists won some earlier restrictions based on pollution, noise, etc.
I did hear that a lot of these flights last season were subsidized by the new owners of Mammoth Mountain Ski Area and that sometimes there were only a couple of people on board. Wonder how long they'll be able to afford that - esp. if this ski season is as slow as last years.
Fill us in Eastside peeps...
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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So Boys, it's tempting .... but are yo saying lynne should drive the 6-8 hours from Sun Diego ? I want to know the odds. Not that it really matters. Guess when you're dust...you are.
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Iron Mtn.
Trad climber
Corona, Ca.
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Lame-Good place should NOT be easy to get to.....
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Really doesnt effect Mammoth much . 40 seater 3 or 4 planes a day. Thats not a lot of bed rentals.
I have had some friends take it and although the flight time is short, the travel time to the airport ( LAX ) and the arrive early crap makes it a couple of hours+ easily.
I would drive to see Whitney and the Eastside as its part of the charm.
Also its a hassle to have such a short flight and have lots of luggage and skis.
I am all for the flights as options are good.
The airline has had shut down on a few heavy snow days and you may get stuck for a few days if you cant escape via a car.
These depend on the ballon rubber wing slots that fill with air to break the ice , not heated wings.
I think it was one of the same planes that went down tragically last winter on the East Coast . Very scary .
The airport was closed for several months last year to widen and lengthen.
I am looking forward to the day that 300 seaters can land in the Bishop Airport.
Money in the Bank !!!!!!!
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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All part of the long term plan since the village went in. East West, American ski corp, Booth Creek etc. I refer to them as the evil empire. Read "Down Hill Slide". Truckee is going through the same shite. Mammoth will never be the same, and neither will my town. Phuck whitey.
It starts with the 40 seater, Then grows like a parasite.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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"Those Horizon planes are Swedish prop jobs"
That got my interest as I thought Saab 340's were long gone from the commercial scene.
The linked article notes they are useing "76-seat Bombardier Q400s". I'm happy to hear that as that is a most excellent rig for that route and airport. They're built like brick you-know-whats, they'll handle the turbulence better than a regional jet due to lower wing loading, and most importantly they don't need as much runway as a jet.
ps
They're also 'greener' than a jet: better mileage and lower operating costs per seat mile.
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HighGravity
Trad climber
Southern California
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The way I understood it they originally were going to do it in Bishop, but the town said F-that. A part of me doesn't like the idea, but it would make a quick get away that much easier.
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JOEY.F
Social climber
sebastopol
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Timid,
UAX, West Air did the Fresno MMH run, sure wish I had done that one. Lucky you!
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midi510
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes
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I've lived in Mammoth most of the last 46 years, I suppose I'm a local. The airport was expanded through an FAA grant and was designed to handle at least 707s. Because of noise, other environmental issues, changing economy, etc. we've ended up with the twin turboprop by Bombardier. It's not an old beater, but one of the most advanced planed in it's class. A turboprop is the ideal plane for this application. I'm a licensed aircraft mechanic and feel fine flying on it.
As far as impact goes, from a local's point of view, I don't care how people get here, I just don't like it when it's too busy. Local government's a joke when it comes to planning. People used to adapt to the mountain environment because they didn't like living in the city. Now it's a little city in the mountains. City people and their city ways. If people fly in and use public transpo, things might be better while local businesses still keep afloat.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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On the surface, it looks like a good idea, but several issues arise, such as increased traffic around Mammoth/June Lakes, environmental concerns, noise (though the Q-400 is suppose to be quite quiet - that's sort of a tongue twister, say it fast five times, quite quiet quite quiet quite quiet quite quiet quite quiet), and the fact that if one wants to go ice climbing at Lee Vining, June Lake etc, one would have to rent a car.
Since I live in Ireland for the time being, it does not concern me greatly about an increased air service, but then, I'm not a local.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Reno to Mammoth? I'd rather drive then go through the airport with my gear and all the BS security( at least that's what hey call it). What's the driving time 3.5 hrs? Airport time, flight time and driving time from airport to Mammoth 2hrs (on the best side). Knott much savings there.
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DrDeeg
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Living in Mammoth, I like having air transport available. I travel frequently in my work, and my carbon footprint is much larger than I would like it to be because of the driving. One problem in Mammoth is the lack of ANY regular, frequent public transport either north to Reno or south to LA. There is a 3x per week bus to Reno, and south there is a 3x per week bus to Ridgecrest. Not even Greyhound runs along the east side anymore. If you want to do a trans-Sierra hike or ski trip, your options are to intersect with the infrequent bus service, hitchhike, or make some sort of car arrangement.
You do need to read the fine print in the announcement. The expanded service starts in December and will likely run just through the main part of the ski season.
The flight itself is spectacular. The current route from LAX to Mammoth crosses the Sierra just south of Mt Tom. The plane is already starting to descend at that point, and you are below the summit of Mt Tom. It is true that the airport at Mammoth can be tricky; there is a single runway, and Convict Canyon points right at the middle of it. There are three wind socks along the runway next to the highway, and often they point in three different directions. In bad conditions, though, the planes have the option to land in Bishop.
Perhaps the most annoying aspect of the air service has been the hype. If you add up all the proposed flights, you get 200-300 more people in town on the weekends. Bringing a few more people to town during the week is positive; you add revenue to the town’s businesses without having to enlarge the infrastructure. Air service will not save the Mammoth economy; depression of the real estate market and the decline in visitor days are caused by larger, nationwide issues. But it won’t destroy Mammoth’s character either; the skiing (both resort and backcountry) and climbing will still be great, and the town has long had a trashy, strip-mall ambiance. A friend of mine who came to Mammoth after a two-decade absence was asked what he thought; his reply was, “The Mountain is great, the town sucks, just like 20 years ago.”
Marketing of any product has to balance between hubris and analysis. In Mammoth, the balance is a bit out of whack. The name of the damned airport is the “Mammoth-Yosemite Airport,” despite the fact that commercial service is available only in winter, when Yosemite is a seven-hour drive.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mid510 and DrDeeg,
Since you both are Mammoth locals and Mid510 you know a lot about avaition, shouldn't flying into Mammoth really be based on safety and its effects on the environment first?
Have either of you read the book: "Exploring the monster: Mountain lee waves : the aerial elevator" by Robert F Whelan?
http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-monster-Mountain-aerial-elevator/dp/1891118323
Mountain flying is very serious business.
They came to the Sierras to study the phenomenon of the Sierra Wave, since it occurs here on such a regular basis. As you both are probably aware, the Sierra Wave can slap an aircraft out of the sky like the hand of God. It is usually marked by the classic lenticular waves of the classic Sierra Wave, but it can happen on an absolutely clear blue sky day and pilots would be none the wiser unless they are clued into the upper level winds and what they are doing with respect to wind direction and velocity. It is the rotor cloud that gets you, and that usually sets up right over the Owens Valley or just East of the the Sierra Crest. Isn't that where the Mammoth-Yosemite airport is?
Many an aircraft have gone down in the Sierras over the years due to micrometeorology conditions of updrafts and down drafts that easily exceeed the ability of the airacraft. I repeat, mountain flying is dangerous.
Steve Fosset is a case in point. The NTSB/FAA investigation finally determined it was downdrafts that exceeded his plane's ability that sent him into the ground. Steve was a very experienced pilot and knew mountain weather flying. He flew sailplanes and thermalled, and flew lee-side waves for altitude records. At least when I fly paragliders in the "Big-O" and the Sierras, I pick the exact time. I have no set schedule. I know the upper level winds and local conditions, I'm already there to personally see the conditions. I don't fly in adverse weather. And I fly with a reserve parachute. Can commercial aircraft do all of this for Sierra flying? Seems a gamble to me. And then a gamble with other peoples lives who can't make these decisions for themselves after the pilot leaves the ground.
Steve Fosset's full accident report from NSTB:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20081007X17184&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20081007X17184&ntsbno=SEA07FA277&akey=1
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