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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 6, 2009 - 05:22pm PT
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Maybe 7 or 8 years ago at the Lover's Leap campground there used to be a posting in each bathroom explaining why closing the lid AND the door cuts down on both the stink and the flies. It seems counterintuitive - until then I assumed (as do, apparently, many people) it would be better to leave the door open to air things out. This paragraph or so explained that it has something to do with Bernoulli's Principle, the fact that flies can't fly straight, and one or two other things (the vent design?).
Anyway, I still think about that every time I get to the parking lot and see a door propped open with a zillion flies around. Does anyone else remember seeing that explanation and, more importantly, know where I can find a copy?
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jewedlaw
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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This is on the bathroom right now...
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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When I think of vault toilets; something I rarely do by the way. I always remember the time I got up in the middle of the night to use the vault toilet at the Onion Valley trailhead because my pee bottle was already too full. As I stood there peeing away, the beam of my headlamp happened to shine into the dreck below.
THE HORROR!
There were several dozen mice scurrying around, chewing on turds while getting peed on.
Perhaps Werner could explain what kind of awful life a person must lead in order to come back as a vault-toilet-mouse so that I can be sure to lead a better life.
Sometimes, when I happen to click and shine a light into a political thread here on ST, some of the posters, SUAP for instance, remind me of this experience for some reason.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Perhaps we all start out as mice and we have to pay our dues getting pissed on and easting turds in order to come back as a human.
Fate is a cruel mistress.
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factortwo
Social climber
Placerville, ca
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I remember the sign. People had added various comments to it. Someone had written out the somewhat lengthy mathematical equation for Bernoulli's principle and then someone else had corrected the equation. It was sort of an off line chat about the pitfalls of pit toilets. I think there was also something written by someone whom appeared to know a lot about flies. It made for good reading while sitting on the throne trying not to pass out.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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What's so hard to understand? WTF do flies not flying straight have to do with simple airflow dynamics?
You close everything up and the vapors are sucked out elsewhere through an exhaust pipe.
You leave it open and there's less of a vacuum and the the vapors come out through the seat/door.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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I thought these were going to be more obscure Leap routes.
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2009 - 11:21pm PT
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What's so hard to understand? WTF do flies not flying straight have to do with simple airflow dynamics?
I think the flies' flying abilities had to do with something about the toilet design, e.g. if the exhaust pipe is straight and the door is closed then the flies can't get in.
I don't recall the exact description and 'argument' but it seemed like an interesting and informative way to get people to close the dang door. And if/when I get a copy of the original I intend to print it out and re-post there.
I thought these were going to be more obscure Leap routes.
That's a good idea! If I ever get an FA at the Leap this is what I'll call it.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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That lower privy is god-awful stanky.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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One of the first few times I was at the Leap I got quite the little show...
Guy #1, let's call him Walter, goes into the upper shitter (the much less stinky one, don't know why?).
Guy #2, let's call him Tim, sneaks up with a skull sized boulder, and proceeds to mantle up onto the top. A second later he's standing over the vent yelling "Look out below!!!!". Splooosh!
From inside we hear "I'm covered!!!".
God damned hilarious, especially the waddle Walter does upon his exit. I didn't go near those two for years, now one's my bud, and I think the other one wants me dead (probably justified knowing my sh#t people skills).
Good times.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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with the door closed,
a pressure differential is created..
high pressure inside, low pressure outside.
the odors seek the low pressure.
cause things tend towards chill.
its how planes fly as well, the faster moving fluid on the top side of the wing creates a low pressure, with a high pressure on the bottom of the wing. the fluid attempts to move to the low pressure, thru the wing, thus pushing up.
its why the shower curtain always creeps in on you.
its caused many train accidents.
if people opened up their windows during a hurricane, then there would not be a pressure differential inside / outside of their house, and their roof wouldn't blow off.
there is a little of what i know about fluid dynamics.
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2009 - 12:31pm PT
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Guy #2, let's call him Tim, sneaks up with a skull sized boulder, and proceeds to mantle up onto the top. A second later he's standing over the vent yelling "Look out below!!!!". Splooosh!
This supports my hypothesis that the vent is straight (and thus if flies can't fly straight they can only get in if the door is open).
Since no one has been forthcoming with the original source, I guess I'll start working on a re-creation. I'll post here for proofing and comments.
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franky
climber
Davis, CA
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There can't just be a chimney, or air would never come out of it, sort of like trying to suck the last drop out of an empty beer bottle. There must be a vent down low on the outside of the pit, air flow over the chimney should be lower pressure by bernoulli's , thus sucking fresh air into the lower vent, and sucking nasty air out of the chimney. The assumption of course is that air flow 10 ft up in the air is faster than air flow at ground level, an assumption which usually holds.
If you leave the door open, you weaken the pressure gradient that is causing air to flow out of the chimney, and you are stuck with the much less effective pressure gradients that can be made across the doorway. The bad air just kind of gets moved around slowly like driftwood on a beach rather than a twig floating on a river.
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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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Those outhouses are designed with a tall black vent pipe.
The color and length helps heat the air inside the pipe, causing it to rise. The rising air pulls fresh air into the room (through vents), down the hole, and up through the pipe. a negative pressure in the poo area see? fresh air flows in, no poo air flows out (into the room). AND...flies are unable to fly down the pipe against the "wind".
When you leave the door open, wind and drafts overwhelm the gentle convective process and you get flies and odors in the room.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Good replies Jay Wood and DMT.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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A simple solution (for the door) would be a spring/hydraulic device to keep it closed.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Uh,.... PEOPLE! Something worth considering;
Right up through the Boer War more soldiers in wars died of disease than enemy action.
Then we developed more lethal weapons.
In WW1 the Brits tended to succumb to disease less than the Germans and Turks.
It was their latrines.
The brits kept them covered up.
You see, though its not pretty to think about, when a fly lands briefly on your food it is leaving small particles of what it was recently landing on.
GET IT??????
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Suddenly its real quiet here while people re-evaluate agoraphobia,...
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| Messages 1 - 18 of total 18 in this topic |
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