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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 16, 2005 - 11:22pm PT
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There were two back to back rock falls on the apron today. Some big enough chunks to make you see the maker or get you killed plenty. The area is closed now until pending. It’s hotter then hell right now, and they said hell was hot …..eh?
So sh-it is blowing off the walls again …. Which means watch out and don’t climb at the apron, not that you really wanted to anyways?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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Jul 17, 2005 - 02:42am PT
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Did the NPS ever fix the leaking septic tank that caused the major rockfall? I read this in climbing mag. Find it hard to believe that a little water could bring down the cliff, considering how much snow falls up there.
Juan
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Larry
Trad climber
Reno NV
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Jul 17, 2005 - 10:14am PT
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Werner,
It's been common for folks to climb on the central part of the Apron recently - say, Monday Morning Slab to the Grack. Supertopos even say it's safe enough.
Did this new rockfall come down on the far left, or right, or what?
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2005 - 10:58am PT
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I'm not quite sure exactly where it came down but I saw the big dust cloud from the SAR cache while I was working. Someone told me the area hit was just left of the Monday Morning Slab area. Myself, I wouldn't want to climb on the apron at all, no matter what the Supertopo guide says. The Apron is just a very volatile place and you’ll never really be relaxed there.
And Supertopo is saying what's safe? Better use your own good sense and intuition.
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hhhhhhhhh
climber
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Jul 17, 2005 - 12:26pm PT
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According to the July Climbing magazine article, the NPS refused to allow access to the Glacier Point water usage records. NPS also refused to allow blue-dye tracer studies, which according to a local geologist I talked to is standard operating procedure.
Although rockfall can occur anywhere, Glacier Point was never known as a place for repeated 100 ton rockfalls until after the Glacier Revitaliztion Project.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Jul 17, 2005 - 03:31pm PT
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Where on the apron? The usual fall zone or closer to stuff like Goodrich?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 17, 2005 - 04:55pm PT
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Thanks for the update Werner. I had some friends planning to climb on the Apron in the afternoons this week, and warned them of the recent rockfall. It's good to get the word around.
Matt
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 17, 2005 - 06:19pm PT
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I have some old video of climbing on the Apron with fellow guides. Very casual stuff but the place always gave me the willies. Then I heard about the big ones and figured the video might make a nice souvenir, sort of like a piece of the tree on Royal Arches (kicking myself on THAT one).
As for the "not much water" school of thought; it doesn't TAKE much introduced to an otherwise dry fissure and then frozen to create great instability which might not come to collapse for months (a nanosecond in geologic time).
But bottom line is that gravity always gets its way in time. Everything is going to go, its just a matter of when.
Several times in the mountains I've felt as though I was under fire.
Here in Zion in barely 30 years we've had some MAJOR incidents of mass wasting (I can hear Groucho saying,"And we've had some pretty big rockfalls too"). One in '83 cleared 12 acres of ponderosa pines when a 750' wall collapsed.
One of my El Cap partners was later killed by a major rockfall. He saw it coming and successfully warned his friends to take cover.
Once you leave the flatlands the potential is there.
Food for thought.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 21, 2005 - 03:02pm PT
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Monday Morning Slab used to have big trees on all the ledges, now it's clean-shaven due to "mass waisting" (God trundeling?). While there's some of the very best moderate cracks over there, I'll be darned if I want to take the chance.
It seems that the central part of the Apron has been realitively rock-fall free. I look at number of trees and bushes at the base and on the ledges above. From this, Goodrich looks fairly safe, at least compared to anything on Middle.
I love the Apron and miss climbing there. I've sneaked a peak a few times in the past couple of years, but always I feel like I'm running across the freeway.
:- k
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 21, 2005 - 06:22pm PT
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K-man, rockfall is a form of mass wasting, Star Jones is a form of mass waisting.
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Larry
Trad climber
Reno NV
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Jul 21, 2005 - 11:30pm PT
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Sorry about the "safe enough" comment. Climbing is dangerous. Rockfall is one of the more unpredictable aspects. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Or should be, anyway.
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KTal
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 22, 2005 - 01:55pm PT
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To the best of my knowledge there have only been a couple major rock falls at the apron in the last N years, each of them putting climbers at risk for a really small window of time (don't know about small rock fall since it doesn't get reported).
If rock fall patterns continue to follow this historical trend I would take this to mean that the probability of actually getting nailed by a major rock fall at the apron is Incredibly F*#king Small.
Is there something missing from my reasoning here?
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e$
Mountain climber
ca
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Jul 22, 2005 - 02:40pm PT
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Last September, small rockfall at Monday Morning Slab broke my friend's foot. The rock was big enough to kill him, but it amazingly only hit his foot -- and just the edge at that. A direct hit would have killed him, for sure, even though he was wearing a helmet.
I suspect that many things like this go unreported.
Edit: This was east (left) of "Monday Morning Slab, Right" route.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 22, 2005 - 05:42pm PT
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The Apron, especially to the right (W.) of Monday Morning Slab, has always been subject to rockfall. The Punch Bowl area has always been extremely dangerous.
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Kurt Jensen
Trad climber
Monterey,CA
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Jul 22, 2005 - 07:20pm PT
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I don't think I'd want to be on Glacier Point ever again with the latest info. There are many potential risks in climbing, and climbing in a known rockfall zone is a mistake I've already managed to live through once in Yosemite.
I wasn't hit on the apron, but I was hit about 10 years ago while in my sleeping bag on Dinner Ledge on my first big wall (attempt). We had heard at Camp 4 that someone's friends were on it above us, and a day overdue to be off of the South Face of the Column. We carted along extra water in case we caught them, and started up late afternoon,. The first night, while in our bags, after dinner, well after dark, I heard a noise of something flying through the air. Couldn't tell what, cliff swallow, rock....? Tryed to roll and move , but after just turning my head, a rock hit me hard, glancing of my neck at an angle and bounced off my shoulder. Blood gushed hard out of the side of my neck, my friend Tyler thinking I was a goner. I had somehow escaped a direct hit , but have a pretty good scar now. (Thanks to the Clinic doc who got out of bed in the middle of the night to stich me up.)
Rocks fell for what seemed like an eternity, but may have just been a few minutes. Two other guys on the ledge ducked in close to the wall as we did, one huddled under haulbag, one holding a cookpot over his head. The first one hit me, and no one else was hit after that. Couldn't stop the bleeding, and we rappelled with me neck duct taped with a sock on it, me holding pressure with one hand. I still can't fathom how fortunate I am, the rock having narrowly missed some major vessels in my neck, and a direct hit missed by such a small move.
I've since climbed some walls, but not yet returned to the South Face of the Column. From what we learned, the other guys were at the top of Washington Column, trying to bust out the last pitch or so in the dark, and probably knocked stuff loose with their haulbag. A lot of people use this as their warm up first wall, and that was our plan, and theirs.
I'd never get on the South Face of Washington Column again if I know someone else was above me. When (or if) I ever do it, I'd scout the route with binoculars, and do it in a day. I will never sleep on Dinner Ledge. There are lots of ways, like Camp 4 local beta, or Supertopo, to know where you are more likely to get nailed. Life is precious, and there are so many great places to climb all over the world, and the tick list in Yosemite and Tuolomne is endless as well. Kiss Glacier Point Apron goodbye. Enjoy the rest. Thanks to Supertopo and all who help spread the word on route/rockfall/descent Beta.
Kurt
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THE MAD BOLTER
Big Wall climber
CARLSBAD, NM
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Jul 22, 2005 - 07:33pm PT
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Just wondering if the rockfall affected the Glacier Pt. Terrace west-rap route.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 25, 2005 - 05:44pm PT
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Kurt,
Thanks for sharing your story of rockfall on Dinner Ledge.
At least one person has been killed by rockfall in their sleeping bag at that very spot.
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paul hernandez
Social climber
ca
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Aug 15, 2005 - 01:51am PT
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from the book:
"these rockfall zones are still active and dangerous. however, if you climb inbetween them on the routes included in this book, you're porbably in no more danger than anywhere else in Yosemite."
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Aug 15, 2005 - 01:29pm PT
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sure do miss climbing on the apron. used to be my home away from home.
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