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just passing thru
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 28, 2009 - 12:10pm PT
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“The Congressional Budget Office has released their analysis of the House version of the stimulus bill (H.R. 1). The CBO estimates that less than 21% of the funds would be spent in 2009.”
That’s right 79% of the stimulus funds will be used to stimulate the economy in 2010 and beyond. Sounds like an aggressive way to jump start the economy.
http://www.readthestimulus.org
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just passing thru
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2009 - 12:31pm PT
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Facts About the Stimulus
Erick Erickson
The $825 billion package slated for a House vote later this week will exceed more than $1.1 trillion when adding in the interest ($300 plus billion) between 2009-2019 to pay for it.
The legislation could open billions of taxpayer dollars to left-wing groups like the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), which has been accused of voter fraud, is reportedly under federal investigation; and played a key role in the housing meltdown.
Here are just a few of the programs and projects that have been included in the House Democrats’ proposal:
$650 million for digital TV coupons.
$600 million for new cars for the federal government.
$6 billion for colleges/universities – many which have billion dollar endowments.
$50 million in funding for the National Endowment of the Arts.
$44 million for repairs to U.S. Department of Agriculture headquarters.
$200 million for the National Mall, including $21 million for sod.
The plan establishes at least 32 new government programs at a cost of over $136 billion. That means more than a third of this plan’s spending provisions are dedicated to creating new government programs.
The plan provides spending in at least 150 different federal programs, ranging from Amtrak to the Transportation Security Administration. Is this the “targeted” plan Democratic leaders promised?
Even though the legislation contains at least 152 separate spending proposals, the authors of the plan can only say that 34 have any chance at keeping or growing jobs.
Just one in seven dollars of an $18.5 billion expenditure on “energy efficiency” and “renewable energy programs” would be spent within the next 18 months.
The total cost of this one piece of legislation is almost as much as the annual discretionary budget for the entire federal government.
The House Democrats’ bill will cost each and every household $6,700 in additional debt, paid for by our children and grandchildren.
The bill provides enough spending – $825 billion – to give every man, woman, and child in America $2,700. $825 billion is enough to give every person in Ohio $72,000.
$825 billion is enough to give every person living in poverty in the United States $22,000.
Although the House Democrats’ proposal has been billed as a transportation and infrastructure investment package, in actuality only $30 billion of the bill – or three percent – is for road and highway spending. A recent study from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office found that only 25 percent of infrastructure dollars can be spent in the first year, making the one year total less than $7 billion.
Much of the funding within the House Democrats’ proposal will go to programs that already have large, unexpended balances. For example, the bill provides $1 billion for Community Development Block Grants (CDBG) – a program that already has $16 billion on hand. States also are sitting on some $9 billion in unused highway funds – funds that Congress is prepared to rescind later this year.
All board members of the “Accountability and Transparency Board” created by this legislation are appointees of the President; none will be appointed by Congress.
A scant 2.7 percent, or $22.3 billion of the overall package, is dedicated to small business tax relief.
The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that the legislation increases by seven million the number of people who get a check back from the IRS that exceeds what they paid in payroll and income taxes.
The “Making Work Pay” tax credit at the center of the plan amounts to $1.37 a day, or about the price of a cup of coffee.
Almost one-third of the so-called “tax relief” in the House Democrats’ bill is spending in disguise, meaning that true tax relief makes up only 24 percent of the total package – not the 40 percent that President Obama had requested.
$825 billion is just the beginning – many Capitol Hill Democrats want to spend even more taxpayer dollars on their “stimulus” plan. In fact, the Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, Rep. David Obey (D-WI), told Roll Call earlier this month, “I would not be surprised to see us go further on some of these programs down the line.”
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Jan 28, 2009 - 12:34pm PT
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I'm watching all this closely, and I'm not encouraged; however, I'm going to give the situation more time to develop. My gut tells me what were are seeing isn't designed to solve the immediate economic problems but instead to drag it out and gradually allow the federal government to slowly assume more permanent power and influence in the economy and our personal lives. I hope this isn't the case; but, if true, we are in for some very bad times and the ultimate failure of this administration.
The manner in which these billions/trillions are being assigned are dubious. Much of it will do nothing to boost the economy, and much of the rest is assigned so long term as to have little immediate impact. Further, it's very likely that dumping all these newly printed bucks into the economy will result in a serious inflationary spiral.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 28, 2009 - 12:35pm PT
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cross-posted from other thread...
Stimulus plan = joke
The more I read about this attrocity, the more it looks like a payout to Democrat lobbies. ACORN, Planned Parenthood, AIDS prevention, etc...
I though it was supposed to 'stimulate' jobs and therefore, the economy. How about letting the taxpayers/small business KEEP more of their money instead of taking it! WE are the biggest means of economic stimulation, the taxpayer, give us relief, NOT MORE DEBT!
FATTY, get on the horn and tell your Repub buddies we'll be pissed off if they vote for this POS!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 28, 2009 - 01:18pm PT
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So, JPT, tell us about yourself. What kind of climbing do you like? Where do you climb? Who do you climb with? What's your favouritest ever climb?
"senior aides" = office cleaning staff, pizza delivery guy. But at least FatTrad is a climber, contributes as such, and doesn't take himself too seriously.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 28, 2009 - 01:25pm PT
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My main complaint with the stimulus is that there should be at least $1 billion for establishing more wolf populations in Idaho for the benefit of Californians.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 28, 2009 - 01:26pm PT
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This chart is worth an hour of everyone's time.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pV-c6t5fOVmNorqMpHvnCMw
For example BLM gets $325 Mil new spending for bridge, road, trail repair or decomissioning. At the same time Fish and Wildlife gets $300 mil for priority road and bridge repair and re- placement, and critical deferred maintenance and improvement projects on National Wildlife Refuges, National fish Hatcheries, and other Service properties. At the same time NPS gets $1.7 Bil for projects to address critical deferred maintenance needs within the National Park System, including roads, bridges and trails, and for other critical infrastructure projects.
All listed as "new spending."
I want to know how much my multi agency park pass is going to cost in four years.
Our government has gone insane.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jan 28, 2009 - 01:32pm PT
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Hmm, fix roads, briges, prevent AIDS and teenage pregancy, OR spend $1 Trillion going to war in a country that posed no threat to us...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 28, 2009 - 01:43pm PT
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Hmm, fix roads, briges, prevent AIDS and teenage pregancy, OR spend $1 Trillion going to war in a country that posed no threat to us...
It not a question of this OR that, it's going to be a decision of this AND that. That will kill this economy for sure.
Didn't we just spend 700 billion bailing out banks. lenders, and lendees? Now we're gonna add another 850 billion, for what?
The gov't is out of control...it must stop.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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Ksolem's spreadsheet just made me sick....we are screwed if this thing passes.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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So what's the Republican plan?
Tax cuts?
That didn't work last year: folks just paid off debt, which is not a bad thing, but it isn't really spending that will kick the economy in the pants. I plan to pay off debt with any tax cut I receive. And, tax cuts will run up the national debt too, just like spending.
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Radish
Trad climber
Seki, California
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:31pm PT
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Face the real facts............you lost the election!! We put up with 8 years of the alternative, now its time for something else, get used to it damn it. Lets read some climbing stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
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Would you rather have the gov't spend your tax money or spend it yourself, in a manner you see fit?
Which one would 'stimulate' the economy more?
Radish, yes my man didn't win, but I'm entitled to criticise what I see as wrong. I had to listen to y'all bitch and whine about Bush, now it's your turn...get used to it!!!
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apogee
climber
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:34pm PT
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Fattrad, LEB, Ksolem, jpt, Woody, Rox(?), bluering (and the like):
Enough talk about how screwed up this stimulus plan is.
What do YOU think it should contain? What do YOU think is the correct strategy?
Your complaints are nothing but tiresome chatter. If YOU were in charge, what would YOU do? (And don't try to weasel out of this saying 'I would never take a job like that'!)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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Another thing we need is retore our manufacturing base, mostly electronics manufacturing. Since we can't put tariffs on Chinese goods right now, small business manufacturers should get major tax breaks.
Other manufacturers should benefit too as long as the manufacturing is done here. Do you know how hard it is to buy something NOT made in China?
I know Obama has talked about this...
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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"Would you rather have the gov't spend your tax money or spend it yourself, in a manner you see fit?"
What would I like to do? Keep it.
What should I do? Pitch in and help.
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apogee
climber
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:45pm PT
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fattrad- ok, that's a suggestion- much better than whining.
Regarding your Japan analogy, would you REALLY be willing to have a 'lost decade' like that which Japan experienced? Is that really in the best interests of this country, especially at a time like this?
I would agree that injecting more money into the banks is pissing it away, and that a 'reset' of attitude is necessary for this debt-driven economy and citizenry. Nonetheless, there are many places where capital could be spent that would have real potential to stimulate growth and help deal with some serious domestic infrastructure problems that are quite real, and have been sidelined for far too long.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 28, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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What should I do? Pitch in and help.
That's what my taxes are supposed to do, just USE THEM WISELY, not for silly expenditures that won't fix anything other than expanding an already bloated and wasteful gov't.
Also, I'm already pissed that MY tax dollars are helping people maintain mortgages that they had no business taking/given in the first place. I can't afford a house right now (barely), why should I give tax money to a moron taking a mortgage he couldn't afford. Let them fail!
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 28, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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So how do you know it won't help? Many leading economists disagree, and it makes sense to me that getting some spending going will get jobs created, money flowing and some tax revenue generated. People aren't spending money right now. And as apogee said, at the worst some long-neglected infrastructure problems will get some love.
Consumer confidence is sh#t right now, so who else will spend money?
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 28, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
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Dirtbag writes:
"Consumer confidence is sh#t right now, so who else will spend money?"
How much money are we talking about?
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