Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 6, 2009 - 09:13pm PT
|
Industrial Technical Rope Access work?
I have a friend who worked for a company that does rope access work on wind towers- their crews rap outside of the towers inspecting them for damage, doing repairs, etc. I spent some time with them during their yearly training last year, and found the work intriguing- many of them were wall rats.
The company I was hanging with is Rope Partner, Inc based in Santa Cruz (though they have international offices), but there are lots of other similar companies:
http://www.ropepartner.com/
http://www.ropeworks.com/site/index.htm
There is a professional association called the Society for Professional Rope Access Technicians (SPRAT) that provides professional training and certification:
http://www.sprat.org/index.asp
Anyway, I was just curious if any of you worked in jobs like this, and what your experience has been like. It seemed like an interesting extension of technical climbing skills that nicely supports an itinerant lifestyle.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2009 - 01:09pm PT
|
Yeah, it does look like fun. The profiles of the people I met were varied- from those with higher degrees in engineering or environmental areas, to those with construction-oriented backgrounds, to outdoor professionals (i.e. raft guides) to wall rats. What they all had in common was a good understanding of technical rope systems and equipment, and the kind of good-hearted, spirited energy that you would find around a campfire in Hidden Valley CG.
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
I worked for a guy who ran his own small tower service. We painted and repaired large radio towers. It was fun and paind well.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
|
|
A couple of those links refer to training centers.
|
|
The Alpine
Big Wall climber
Tampa, FL
|
|
This field of work is great for cliimbers, specifically wall rats. Days go by in the blink of an eye, and the pay is actually of the real world caliber(as opposed to pay related to most climbing-esque jobs).
This is one of my best paying gigs:
We inspected all the yellow cables. ALL.
Those SPRAT guys (Jan of Ropeworks) sure made a smart move. They had the brains (gumption) to get legislation passed to make their standards become the industry standards(law). Now THAT is how you do business (just ask George Bush).
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
Work's a four letter word.
don't let me catch you using that again!!!
|
|
crazy horse
Trad climber
seattle, wa
|
|
I've been climbing for ~15 years and i work in the wind industry. It's a great way to use climbing skills, but it's alot more work than climbing. you have to use these stupid fall arrest systems that i honestly don't trust as much as a climbing belay. OSHA requires a ridiculously overbuilt harness. Everything that you climb sways, sometimes alot. Its a hard thing to get used to, since when you're climbing a rock, the rock doesn't move when the wind blows. Inside the nacelle of the turbine, you can't see outside but the whole thing is moving...i sometimes get a bit sea sick. What caylor said is true. The wind farms that you usually go to are in the middle of nowhere. If you want to work in wind, get used to hanging out in the midwest and eating nasty food for like 2 weeks at a time.
I'm considering going the SPRAT route as well, which hopefully lands a job that is a bit more work-when-you-want than a 9-5 like I currently have.
Thanks for posting, i've been curious about this myself lately since i met a few dudes on a wind farm that worked for the company in Santa Cruz
|
|
wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
|
|
Hey, not to pee on anyone's cake here, but if you're considering going the rope access route, I would suggest getting certified via irata (Industrial Rope Access Trade Association)
http://www.irata.org/
Check out these guys.
http://www.dragonsafetysystems.com/
They are great people, and I definitely recommend their training facility in vegas (NW)-very close to the red rocks cg.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2009 - 04:28pm PT
|
wildone- thanks for that. I knew there was another professional association out there, but couldn't remember the name.
My friend left RopePartner early last year, after some management wierdness left him disillusioned with the company. I have since run into several other people who work for different companies, and hearing these differing views is interesting and useful.
|
|
Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
|
|
i do allot of weird access stuff; roped access, steel climbing, scaffold rigging ect. but i wouldn't say i'm in the access business. i'm in the architectural consulting business. access methods are just a tool to do my professional work.
i wish training and certification requirements were more widespread. at the least, it would keep more dumbass's off the side of my buildings.
|
|
The Alpine
Big Wall climber
Tampa, FL
|
|
The SPRAT courses are good, but sprat is very young still. IRATA is the euro form and has been around much longer so it is more developed.
Again, as I understand it, SPRAT is just something some dudes came up with and are trying to get tied in directly with OSHA. Not that there isn't a need for some sort of governing body or set practices (as Euroford can attest to), but everything always has a money trail. The SPRAT peeps would love to have legislation passed to make it illegal to do any access work without their endorsement.
Now, will taking a sprat or irata course get you work? Probably much easier if you know people in the biz.
|
|
Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
|
|
uhg. don't even get me started on that!!!
you'd think we can build these killer highrises... you'd think we'd be smart enough to get a usable freaking davit/tieback system on them.
its such a joke!
and yes, OSHA does give ALLOT of latitude, far too much. you can be well within the guidelines and still have yourself in a very bad position. they are very good on basic fall arrest kind of stuff, but i believe have wanted to stay so far away from 'means and methods' that the vast majority of my industry has no idea how dangerous what they do really is.
and on those davits.... just because they are there... don't just assume they are safe. found some in houston last month; 5/8" x 2-1/2" hilti quickbolts through a 3/4" davit baseplate into LIGHTWEIGHT concrete.
of course... these are then covered with a pitch pocket.
YIKES
after he finally showed up.... i made one VERY embarrassed engineer. i found these in the field this way, just simply because i had stumbled onto the shop drawings. he'd STAMPED THEM.
|
|
billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
|
|
I've worked for both Rope Partner and Scalla (the rope access work branch of Rope Works). It's a cutting edge industry in this country with a lot of potential, however both companies have issues. Rope Partner is very scattered and unreliable about when you will work, but they pay good. Rope Works has their sh#t together and does a much wider variety of jobs, but they don't pay very well at all. One thing this industry could benefit from is a union. This type of work should be paying in the 30/hr range once you have some experience. That was no where near the case with Rope Works, and their overtime pay was screwy.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
Cool thread and fairly OT.
I didn't know that you were working on wind towers Hank; that sounds like a pretty good extension of the electrical skills/climbing experience that you possess.
*thread drift alert*
EuroFord!!!
Grab a beer and walk on over to this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=750526
I know you have some sports car racing experience and that's where the pictures and conversation are centered right now.
|
|
jholan
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
Gentlemen, (Pardon the assumption)
I may be breaking all kinds of posting etiquette by not hiding behind the anonymity of a nickname and writing about "work" that I have been doing for fifteen years. I founded what is now Ropeworks and Skala while in college. I didn't go out looking to build a career in rope access. It followed me through the process of starting and running a mountaineering school (MAS). The reason that I decided to pursue industrial rope access was to create real career opportunities for myself and the people I cared about while pursuing a lifestyle in the mountains. I don't climb as much as I used to, but many of our staff members enjoy a lifestyle where climbing and mountaineering is a big priority.
I certainly could have created a career for myself as an owner of a mountaineering school, but I would find myself telling our guides that one day they'll probably need to get a "real job". What we have done at Ropeworks and Skala is create "real jobs". It has been a long time coming and it has been a monumental team effort. We now have about 30 staff members.
Our management style compared to many businesses would be considered an experiment. It hasn't always gone smoothly but we attempt to run an open book business with participatory management principles. All the finances of business including profits and losses are shared with all our staff members. We invest quite a bit in empowering our team to make the best business decisions. My goal is that at the end of the day, our team will know how to be the best at rope access while having some business skills to use wherever life takes them.
Most rope access companies treat their staff like free agents and need to compensate for their lack of commitment and frankly, caring. During a time when most companies are panicking, Skala is rolling out full medical benefits to all staff members that commit 2 weeks per month. We invest heavily into our staff training, with our budget in the coming year well over $100K. We also volunteer a ton of time and money to both trade associations that were mentioned. Ropeworks is a member of both IRATA and SPRAT and is a leading trainer for both organizations.
Both IRATA and SPRAT have their place. SPRAT has been investing heavily into making sure that OSHA doesn't make rope access illegal in North America. This is changing, but until recently, IRATA was doing nothing to secure the future of rope access technicians on this continent.
The SPRAT certification system has had its rocky start, but at present the systems are quite similar. In fact,as an assessor/evaluator for both organizations, it is more common to see candidates pass the IRATA Level I certification and fail the SPRAT certification. The written test component is much more controlled in the SPRAT system, for example.
In North America, more companies and government organizations recognize the SPRAT certification system than IRATA. This is changing, but internationally IRATA has a stronger presence. Our general advice is if you have a company in mind, choose the certification system that they embrace. If you don't know where you will want to work and you can afford it, get certified in both.
At Skala we only require SPRAT. Ropeworks instructors need both. Skala generally only hires staff that pass Ropeworks training. Call it self-serving, but this is the best way to know the quality of the training and get a chance to get to know the candidate. We like to hire climbers that also like to work hard. We also hire people that don't climb. People that don't have fun while working hard don't last long on the team. They just don't fit in.
Apologies for the commercially motivated response, but I guess I didn't start the post about "work". Feel free to continue the conversation outside of the forum.
Jan
|
|
wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
|
|
What an edifying post. Thank you for your time, Jan.
|
|
trout
Social climber
blue diamond, nevada
|
|
|
Feb 18, 2009 - 01:33pm PT
|
Hey good to see Mr Holan defending SPRAT on this forum. I come from an IRATA background myself and have done this work since the mid 80's
FYI
The SPRAT guidelines and training documents were taken from the original IRATA guidelines and SPRAT are hoping to emulate IRATA by using their auditing and accident stastics collation model.
To say that IRATA has not contributed to rope access in NA is not strictly the truth now. At the core of all the major North American companies regardless of whether they are SPRAT or IRATA are qualified supervisors and management with IRATA experience and history.
Currently SPRAT does no accident statistic collection and the only figures presented to OSHA and the like are the IRATA ones, which sure helps the safety case.
All those in the rope access industry know that the SPRAT requirements for training and compliance are to a lesser standard than those of IRATA which ever way they are dressed up to look. We all know that SPRAT is cheaper and easier.
However our company supports SPRAT by being a member and attending AGM's etc whilst also being a fully compliant operating and training IRATA member company - this costs us more money and makes it harder to grow quicly as opposed to following the SPRAT route, however until I feel confident that SPRAT has a system that is on par with the proven IRATA standard I am just not comfortable to go the cheaper route.
My advice to people wanting in to the industry is check it fits with your life style. Where you live is not likely to be where the work is - you'll spend a long time away from home and on the road - in power generation / oil & gas most of the work is dirty and to be honest you will get paid more for what you can do on the end of a rope rather than your rope skills. It is a good time to get in but you will have to dig hard and be show patience for the hours required to move through the system, I am sure that rope access will grow strongly in the coming years and is certainly there as a climbers option for reasonable paid work
Dave Towse
|
|
tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
|
Feb 18, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
|
I work in the oil/gas industry, yes you can all hate me now ;)
About 5 years back I went to a rope access display put on my by RAT (rope access technology). I work on fire alarm systems, and we have to perform yearly functional tests on the systems, as well as repairs. Some of the (most of) the existing installations have devices located where it is difficult at best to access them. Installing scafolding is incredibly expensive (you can spend $10k to get to one device), so rope access is a very sensible way to get to these devices. But, there has been strong resistance to using rat in the AK patch, the scafolders don't want to loose work, and there are plenty of old timers that don't like anything new.
What was mentioned about needing to know more than to simply how to acccess items is absolutley paramount. So you've rigged the rope and jugged up to the faulty flame detector, then what? You need to know how the service, test and repair the device.
If you look at becoming an instrument technician, or fire and gas guy, and have rope access skills, then you should be able to find good paying work. Oil and gas industry jobs with their odd schedules to remote locations can be perfect for a climber. Work 2 weeks on, 2 off, or 4 on, 4 off and you can get in some great climbing trips for 1/2 the year, and make good money for the 1/2 of the year you work. On the down side, it's pretty tough to have a social life or relationship with that someone special.
|
|
pip the dog
Mountain climber
the outer bitterroots
|
|
|
Feb 18, 2009 - 04:49pm PT
|
i've enjoyed this thread. always wondered what life was like in that other kind of 'up there'.
Hankster,
i was especially struck by by your lines:
> Did I mention that where they put windfarms it's so friggin
> windy you might go mad? Get used to eating at truckstops
> and dry counties.
BITD, in one of my innumerable odd jobs at the time, i worked as a minor "diggero" at an archeological site some many miles into the dirt outside of kemmerer, WY. right through the winter! --that a story in itself, but i'll avoid at least that digression. suffice to say the only reason they hired me (i had no formal background in the field) is that i had survived a couple of trips into the himalaya. that and no one else was fool enough to apply.
out there, in those brutal winds (especially in winter cold) i often thought about the local aboriginal people whose fire pits and graves we were digging up. this (i was told) was their winter refuge. amazing they didn't just keep heading south to, well, like costa rica. more amazing still that they endured those conditions with nothing but a tiny fire the size of my hand and a couple of antelope skins. who among us could do that?
anyway, what your description brought to mind is something an ancient (likely pushing 100 at the time) LDS gentleman i ran into in the then tiny town of Opal once told me about. he ran what was then a small and ancient (and fascinating) old store that sold simple stuff like 'boil to fit' hats and jeans, canned beans, and of course ammo.
he had been in that locale for forever and was simply fascinating to sit and listen to. i spent many hours there just listening to his memories, and trying to paint them in my own mind's eye.
i once came into his store on an especially windy day and said something on the order of "this fookin wind is going to drive me fookin mad". at which this excellent ancient told me of what, way way BITD, they called "the wind sickness."
the wind sickness, as he described it to me (with many examples of people he actually knew, long long ago) referred to this. back in the still early days (he could remember back into the early nineteen-teens) many a young couple came out to 'make a go of it'.
and the work, was of course, brutal in such a harsh environment. so brutal that many a husband gave up all hope and fell into a bottle and drank themselves to death. literally.
the widows they left behind had, he told me, effectively, two choices. try to hang in their alone, or go to a town like rock springs and become a, well, "professional lady". many chose the latter.
those who stayed were entirely alone, miles from their nearest neighbor. how they pulled this off i can't begin to imagine.
but as years went by, that alone, and in that demanding place of near endless wind, they would eventually get "the wind sickness". or so my remarkable elder explained to me.
they would, by our current vision of the world, go mad.
he told me of many accounts in which he, personally, drove the endless miles just to see if they were ok (as he worried about them if they didn't show up at his store, the only one within then parsecs) for months on end.
he told me of how he would drive up to what was left of their homes, and often get shot at. those who didn't shoot, and he told me they were all most excellent shots as most relied on what rabbits and the like they could plink to survive, he would drive up close and try to find.
he told me he often found those who didn't shoot at him out in those local endless rollers of small hills, out in the tatters of what was left of their last dress, out howling and screaming at the wind.
endstage symptoms of "the wind sickness". or so this ancient soul told me.
i suspect you have unique insights into what these women were up against.
sorry i couldn't find a way to pass this along in fewer words.
all good things,
^,,^
|
|
JacksColdSweat
climber
|
|
|
Feb 18, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
|
i work for Rope Partner
JCS
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!