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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:08pm PT
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Chris;
I would add some Idyllwild routes to your list
Insomnia 5.11a/b
Valhalla 5.11a
The Vampire 5.11a
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:21pm PT
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I would go with Walt Bailey Memorial as THE classic Devils Tower crack and I think Bon Homme Variation has the best 300 feet of 5.7 Hand crack in the country- andI know cuz I've done all the others
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:46pm PT
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Mixed emotions about the “Teton Classics”on the list….. they’re classics but not necessarily the best climbs in the range. Way too much traffic already on the Direct Exum, yet the Beyer East face and NW Ridge are better routes. Irene’s Arete gets excessive attention but there are other rock climbs nearly as good, with little traffic.
I’m opposed to lists that serve to funnel climbers onto a few select routes rather than explore the varied manifestations of a range.
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Degaine
climber
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Oct 28, 2008 - 08:53am PT
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Seems like an interesting enough idea.
Don't know why you'd want to inlcude anything from the Needles on that list, that place is choss. Spend time, money, ink and paper on an area much more worthy of consideration. As far as I'm concerned the quicker that place is forgotten and falls into oblivion, the better. I'd rather go climbing at the Auburn quarry.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 28, 2008 - 10:31am PT
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To be honest Chris, and please don't be offended, the list appears to be centered around a single climber's (yours?) experience.
When I look at the Utah selections, a bunch of routes in only three areas, it appears to leave wide gaps.
Perhaps you should pursue more of a censensus type list.
I'm not sure if I should be insulted that none of my routes are included, but they are crowded and abused enough so could you please keep it that way?
cheers
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 28, 2008 - 11:39am PT
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It's a catch-22 eh? If a route gets "Super Topo-ed" then it becomes much more popular. (unless it's insanely popular to begin with.
If you choose the secondary super-classics, they become the super-classics. Is that better or worse.
There are only so many of us climbing and we climb something or other. The routes that aren't super-topo-ed are suddenly easier to get on.
That's why, even though I think Chris is a great, and I love Supertopos, I'm careful what I write in the forum.
Pick your poison, nobody stays home from climbing because of the book, they just choose the route from a book
Peace
karl
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 28, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
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I think Chris and his business have enough standing in the topo-buying community to take the 100 Classic Grovels concept to a whole new level:
100 Classic Climbs that are Way the Hell Out There, Nearly Impossible to Find, and May Not Even Exist.
Then, instead of queuing up for Nutcracker, the helmeted hordes will spend all their time thrashing about in the shrubbery in search of the (possibly fictional) Classic Must-Do Route, having unscripted adventures, and generally staying out of the way of all the cool kids who inhabit the Taco Stand (that's you).
Everybody wins. The n00bz all get to recreate the thrill of new-routing- endless shwacking, uncertainty of outcome, dirt choss weeds and vermin, character-building route-finding (in every sense), and will come away very proud of themselves for Having Had an Adventure. And the rest of us can finally get on the Nutcracker for the first time in 15 years.
Some candidates:
Cloud's Rest- make up some BS beta, close your eyes and draw a line on a photo taken from Olmstead Pt., and you're done.
Panorama Point- did you hear about the new classic 5.8 over there? It's all bolted! I think Sean Jones had something to do with it.
Eagle Peak- firstoff, there's two of them, within a few miles of each other, both on the north rim of the Valley. Let's make this one that metamorphic rubbleheap above El Portal, although this information will remain unclear in the guide. Park at Crane Creek and commence shwacking. Don't ferget yer Tecnu!
Um, the entire Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP, exclusive of the Chasm View walls. A thousand gumbies could disappear every day for a year before anyone noticed.
Let's put one mega-starred Must Send line somewhere up on the Book Cliffs, how about a few miles east of Green River....it's a three-pitch hand crack. With big footholds, Red-Rocks style. Yeah, that's the ticket. 5.9, but soft for the grade.
You won't sell many books to Easterners (except in Las Vegas) unless you excavate a few Eastern Mega-Classics, so....an imaginary lake in the Adirondacks? Western Maine? How about the Chattooga Cliffs? Anyone ever hiked out to those things? I have, and the climbing is great, but there's, um, no Supertopo. Yet.
Help me out here, Cascade aldermen. Nothing do do for half the year in Seattle but sip your coffee and peruse your newest armchair aspiration list. That thing those two guys did a couple years abo that they spotted from a plane- 5.11X, three-day approach, no-pro, no-falls-- I heard it's cleaned up to a family-friendly .10a. If you stay on route. EDIT: MisterE's Devil's Club!
Big Bend: isn't there an El Capitan down there?
I can't wait.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Oct 28, 2008 - 01:19pm PT
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Funny thing about doing a guide to any list of routes is that climbers like to second-guess and pick on your choices. Best to just do it and not try to organize the list by committee. I always liked Steck and Roper's take on it. "Make your own list, this one is ours."
A buddy and I talked about doing a guide like this one, but we were going to call it 100 Routes that Don't Suck. Bet we would still have gotten a bunch of horse hockey about some of the routes.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 28, 2008 - 01:51pm PT
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Um, you're a pretty good climber..that's a different list.
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the museum
Trad climber
Rapid City, SD
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:52pm PT
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Right, as TK put it, there is no classic climbing in MT.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:58pm PT
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"Chris;
I would add some Idyllwild routes to your list
Insomnia 5.11a/b
Valhalla 5.11a
The Vampire 5.11a"
Thanks blabber mouth. Not enough crowds on these for you?
Is there anything wrong with letting people discover an area for themselves?
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 28, 2008 - 03:34pm PT
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Why not put something in that's wild and really North Cascades-y - something maybe from the Picket Range in WA (South Face of Inspiration or North Ridge of Fury, or one of the recent traverses).
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Fulford
climber
Canmore, Alberta
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Oct 29, 2008 - 10:22pm PT
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"I realize that best of books have their issues". Who are you kidding? ALL your guidebooks are best of books - that's why I own most of them.
I've spent most of the last 5 years road-tripping all over the USA (including AK) doing mostly classic, long, trad and alpine routes. I've compiled a "best of" list along the way which I would be happy to share with you.
From what I understand, some Canadian lads are already working on a "best of canada" book, so you might be better off sticking with the US theme despite what my s-teamed col-eeg knight sugjest eh.
Shoot me an e-mail if you are interested - I don't really want to post the list on-line.
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timeless61
Mountain climber
Seattle
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:16pm PT
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Chris,
Have you decided on criteria for the list? I can think of some routes I might suggest if I had an idea of what guidelines you were using to evaluate what routes make the list. What is important: length, difficuly, popularity, sustained nature, variety, scenery, etc?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:30pm PT
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It's no secret that Valhalla, Insomnia, and The Vampire or classics;...STILL;....they are FAR from crowded......People have been calling The Vampire "The best climb in So. California for decades.".......and at 5.11-, it's well within the reach of many climbers;.....yet one would not call the climb crowded;...same with Insomnia;...another steller dick-wrenching mega-classic;....as good as any climb anywhere;....yet I have walked by the climb over 100 X.....yet seen parties on it maybe a dozen times.........I have always found this very interesting,...what the hell is up with that?........(As for protecting these great climbs from the masses;.....I wouldn't lose any sleep over it;...it just isn't gonna happen......if it hasn't happened yet, I won't happen in the future;.....each year climbers stray farther and farther from the challenging trad climbs, and instead turn their gaze towards the Petzel hangers winkin' at them from the many sport climbs which have sprouted up like mushrooms.....)
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:33pm PT
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I missed Ed's Crack on that list, but why make that one crowded?
And as far as Deto goes, let's keep the tradition of siphoning people through Durrance, first.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:37pm PT
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It's no secret that Valhalla, Insomnia, and The Vampire or classics;...STILL;....they are FAR from crowded......People have been calling The Vampire "The best climb in So. California for decades.".......and at 5.11-, it's well within the reach of many climbers;.....yet one would not call the climb crowded;...same with Insomnia;...another steller dick-wrenching mega-classic;....as good as any climb anywhere;....yet I have walked by the climb over 100 X.....yet seen parties on it maybe a dozen times.........I have always found this very interesting,...what the hell is up with that?........(As for protecting these great climbs from the masses;.....I wouldn't lose any sleep over it;...it just isn't gonna happen......if it hasn't happened yet, I won't happen in the future;.....each year climbers stray farther and farther from the challenging trad climbs, and instead turn their gaze towards the Petzel hangers winkin' at them from the many sport climbs which have sprouted up like mushrooms.....) It's the same with the Needles and Canyon Tajo;....people try to protect these fabulous climbing areas by keeping them "secret"....well;.....they aint' secret , and they aren't crowded, ruined, or toast;......at least from the visits I've made to these areas;...they seem fairly quiet reguardless.......keep it real.......(How about those who say Joshua Tree is crowded?....please...the place is a ghost town;....as soon as you step away from Sail Away, Double Cross, Walk on the Wild Side, and Soapy Tit Wank.....)
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:53pm PT
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RhodoRouter,
"Climbs that are Way the Hell Out There, Nearly Impossible to Find, and May Not Even Exist"
ya, this idea has been done before too.
Affectionately known as the "Maroon Book of Lies".
Garbage guide book but apparently a marketing success.
Don somebody or other's lame attempt to catalog Adirondacks climbing.
Now no longer relevant.
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