Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
P Whalen
Trad climber
CO
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:48am PT
|
What about it? BD makes good stuff. Sure its bomber. Wish I could afford a pair.
|
|
ADK
climber
truckee
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:50am PT
|
there was some talk about them on another thread. I have held them. The trigger for the cam release is much better placed than on any of the other jumars. Apparently, moving them up the rope requires releasing the cam unless there is a lot of rope beneath you. The apparent reason for this is that the teeth point straight out whereas the petzls point downward.
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 03:04am PT
|
wait till after the first round of recalls.
looks over engineered to me...
like who has ever had their jug slide down the rope? I guess if it was coated in ice or something, but then you're f*#ked anyway...
|
|
imnotclever
climber
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 11:16am PT
|
Is the cam spring loaded or do you have to keep weight on the handle to keep the cam closed?
Say you get up to the belay ledge after jugging and stand up, are you still attached to the rope or did it just open up?
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2007 - 11:45am PT
|
smaller, lighter and with a proper ergonomic fit that makes it easy to slide up rope, but also with extraordinary holding power that won't shred a rope after two seasons.
also, something not so costly. I think I paid like 60 for the pair of clogs I've got. handle is comfy, just releasing the trigger is a biter when you don't have gloves on.
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 01:47pm PT
|
RE:
"it would be cool if a manufacturer made ascenders not designed for big gloves. it seems they could make them much smaller and lighter."
yes - exactly - also, one of the things I liked about the Clogs was the ability of the attachment sling (U-joint) to "float" in accordance with the attitude (vertical to horizontal) of the ascender - keeping the load on the cam pretty even.
it seems if the criteria were really analyzed, the handle design might look different (more ergonomic and downward angled kinda like a leash-less ice tool) than what we're seeing now, as well.
there is this thing in product design - it's called "what ifs" - and those are the things that produce watered down low performance products IMO.
|
|
spyork
Social climber
Land of Green Stretchy People
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 01:59pm PT
|
Not sure I like the way the body is hinged at the base and opening the cam changes the shape of the thing. Of course, if I was tied in short, I would test em ). But I like my current ascender, so no sale. All I need is more gizmos...
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:06pm PT
|
Look good, I truly hate my petzl's and my beloved Clogs (with custom Jrat sewn rigging) left in one of my first robberies.
But, what Lambone said, I'll wait a generation or two, as we all know, WE are the Quality control testors for BD!
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:12pm PT
|
Oh man, look at those things. They look like a Ferrari. Hot rod man.
"like who has ever had their jug slide down the rope?"
Me, of course the iced up ropes helped. Switched to prussics then.
What a weird looking jumar design that BD thing above.
|
|
Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:20pm PT
|
One possible drawback, only one carabiner hole on the bottom (as a result of design).
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:33pm PT
|
RE:
" One possible drawback, only one carabiner hole on the bottom (as a result of design)."
I'm just a dweeb but like to analyze from - I hope - a real-world perspective and it seems like the sling on the Clog and the U-joint effect it provides (like a Jumar attachment) is pretty cool...
|
|
handsome B
Gym climber
SL,UT
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:38pm PT
|
They are pretty sweet.
No, you don't need any more rope below you for them to move compared to other ascenders.
The single carabiner hole at the bottom is big enough for a locking mechanism to fully rotate through. Petzls cannot do this.
The hinge is designed to put more force on the rope. A good thing.
Try them out, you will like them.
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:38pm PT
|
Wow! Hot rod is right, Werner! Those things look crazy and way over-engineered.
Some that are not built oversize for thick gloves would also be good too, as Chris already stated.
"Apparently, moving them up the rope requires releasing the cam unless there is a lot of rope beneath you."
Ummm... this has kinda been my experience with jugs, in general. I've been using petzl, for years (can you still get clogs, I'd be willing to check out something new) and with those, unless there is a fair amount of rope beneath you, you need to slightly release the cam a bit on each up-stroke.
|
|
tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:46pm PT
|
In addition to what I said about the slippage of these nForce ascenders in the other thread...
I was jugging on a couple different 10.5mm ropes, they do have a spring on them keeping everything tight to the rope, so when you stand up on a ledge, they stay on the rope.
Another suggestion earlier in this thread, I think it would be perfect to re-design these for summer walls with a much more horizontal and bigger handle, I think changing the angle of the handle would fix the slippage problem.
I'm sure more people will be able to add more to this slipping thing, it wasn't a huge problem, they always caught again, but on both free-hanging and slabby stuff they did it, just didn't catch at first because the handle wasn't pulled back and away from the rope as much as it needed to in order to rotate the teeth into the rope.
I'm dead sure that once you got a dozen pitches under your belt with these jumars you could figure out how eliminate the slipping without thinking about it.
If I had to buy new ones, I probably would BD's. Black Diamond is American, they seem to be concerned about the climbing community, (KP has answered my and many other people's questions on gear integrity on their site) and their new $60 ICON headlamp is better than my $1100 headlamp for um... dentistry believe it or not. I even know another dentist who has a cosmetic dentistry practice in Beverly Hills who uses the 3w LED headlamp.
I can't wait till they come out with a 5w with a belt battery pack to try.
|
|
feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 02:51pm PT
|
yes Black Diamond is American..
...but most of their soft gear is made in (gasp!) China!
The Horror!
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2007 - 06:46pm PT
|
Raydog, right on the money on what I was thinking on ergodesign.
|
|
Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2007 - 08:11pm PT
|
hey mungeclimber - or anyone -
if you can send me or post some good straight on pics of the Clog ascender (laying down on it's side, not much shadow, white background) - I'll chop-em up in Photoshop and re-draw/re-design sections with Illustrator -
then post the samples for feedback,
then re-design/re-draw according to the feedback from the group -
we'll design our dream ascender right here on the ST -
(if they have a sling on 'em move sling onto metal frame - away from plastic grip for photo)
it'll be fun!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!