Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 13 of total 13 in this topic |
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 10, 2006 - 02:44pm PT
|
This seemed pretty good for side discussion, so I cut it from the bloated WoS thread. Dial-ups, you're welcome.
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 09:56am PST
Author: Nefarius
Big Wall climber
From: Fresno, CA
And since I am here...
I think it interesting that with all the talk about the ethics of the day, ethics in general, etc. and how, supposedly, no one is being held to a higher standard, that here, on this site, there is a photo of one of the "perps" using a stick clip or cheat stick while on lead. I kinda thought that was taboo, as well. It would certainly, I think remove any "right" he'd have had to be on the "shitting team of ethics".
Or is stick clipping accepted now as well?
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 10:00am PST
Author: Russ Walling
Social climber
From: Out on the sand, Man.....
C'mon Nef... you know the drill (pun intended)... names, pics etc.
I would love to see a shiiter with a stick clip. And, no, it ain't Kosher.
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 10:34am PST
Author: Nefarius
Big Wall climber
From: Fresno, CA
Russ -- OK, so, before I go getting ahead of myself and spouting off, as I did the other day...
Would attaching stuff to the end of a hammer or using something like a trick, duct-taped, extended draw, when you're obviously not in your top steps constitute cheat sticking/stick clipping?
Just verifying what I've always been led to believe is considered such...
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 10:42am PST
Author: Russ Walling
Social climber
From: Out on the sand, Man.....
Depends™™™™ Neff.... Taking a cheat stick for use as a cheat stick is IMO bull crap unless:
you are a midget
-or-
the topo calls for it (don't like this one either, think LoveTron™™™)
As for the hammer trick or the wired stopper trick.... quasi legitimate. On the spot improvising is probably ok. Top steps??? Who uses them on a steep route?
Let's see the pic.... you are well on the way to outing a cheater and a shiitter. (hope it ain't me!) Isn't this fun!?!?
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 10:59am PST
Author: Nefarius
Big Wall climber
From: Fresno, CA
Russ -- That all sounds pretty straight forward and makes sense.
My take on the image is that the part of the route being photo'd is not particularly steep, and Mike is actually pretty far down the aiders. While the bolt/rivet looks pretty crappy, I'm not really sure what's going on here. Just seems odd to me and looks like he's got a scream aid on the end of something. What's your take?
Again, I could just be talking out my ass. But this is how it ocurred to me when I saw the photo.
Thanks for having a look, Russ.
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 11:05am PST
Author: Russ Walling
Social climber
From: Out on the sand, Man.....
hahaha! I would have to go with "midget" to help out my fellow "Valley Boy".
Not sure what the fuk is going on there.... but it kinda looks like an un-convicted but accused shiiter with a cheat stick...... THE SHAME!
Good work Neff.
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 11:22am PST
Author: Nefarius
Big Wall climber
From: Fresno, CA
I really like your response about cheat stick use, Russ. Seems pretty reasonable. Even on the easy aid I've done (in comaprison to the topic), I've never taken one with me and don't intend to start. I've seen them plenty, while watching people through a long lens on the end of my camera though. It has just always occurred to me that there *is* a way through it, if you suck it up and figure it out.
I wonder if a lot of things out there for reading might lead people new to aid to believe it's actually somewhat acceptable. You certainly can read, even here, on the route pages where people use them and no one really gives them any grief about it.
Re: WoS / PTPP, part XXV (continued from XXIV ) Aug 10, 2006, 11:33am PST
Author: Russ Walling
Social climber
From: Out on the sand, Man.....
Neff writes: I wonder if a lot of things out there for reading might lead people new to aid to believe it's actually somewhat acceptable. You certainly can read, even here, on the route pages where people use them and no one really gives them any grief about it.
Like most things, it boils down to personal style or what you have been taught. I was taught that they were puss, and have never used one or taken one on a route.... that I can recall...
But.... people use them all the time. Here is the problem/no problem with that:
This falls under the heading of "I don't care what you do (except for damaging the rock) as long as I don't have to hear about it". So if a sprayer used a cheat stick and starts spraying about some hard asss route and how he floated it etc... that is bullshiit without disclosing the use of a stick. If Joe Anyone goes and does the Column and says, "yeah, I used a cheat stick on the Kor roof and the rest of the route was easy"..... then big deal. What do I care if he used a ladder.
I guess I only care when there is not full diclosure on harder stuff. Ratings are our yardstick for ego, pecking order, and all the rest. Cheating with a stick makes routes easier. The playing field is no longer level.
|
|
Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
|
|
|
Aug 10, 2006 - 03:03pm PT
|
Are you just looking for affirmation of your wisdom? What else is there to say beyond your final, utterly reasonable conclusions?
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2006 - 03:03pm PT
|
edit for clarity: OW: Let's ask a cheat stick user. My wisdon needs no affirmation ;)
As an added subnote:
It just fukkin sad that these days that you need to ask (if you care, that is) any returning climber from any route 20 questions to find out what they did, in what style and with whom before you can say "good job".
Maybe we should just get a checklist going:
Did you use tape? (3 letter grades off)
Did you push a wide cam on the OW? (8 letter grades off)
Did you place a tube chock? ( add 2 letter grades)
Did your knee go behind the tube, even for a second? (no ascent)
Did you nail or hand place your pins? (nail, take two Aid grades off, hand, Add 2)
Do you know Charlie Fowler (add 3 aid letter grades if done clean)
Did you use a cheater stick? (3 grades off, unless you really don't give a fuk, then add 2 fun points)
Sunscreeen and enough water? (remove 2 epic points)
Supertopo or hand drawn by Yabo? (Super, remove 3... Yabo, "you topped out!!!!!")
Hangdog? (remove 5 letter grades)
Pull through on pro? (ascent nullified)
Bolts placed or added to route? (firing squad unless you are on a "dream team")
Started the clock half way up the first pitch (nullifies any speed ascent)
There must be millions........
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2006 - 03:17pm PT
|
Locker: You are correct. You can do anything you want. Just have full disclosure if you want to spray about it. Simple really....
|
|
Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2006 - 07:20pm PT
|
Look more closely guys, Oid is hanging below a white and blue long tie off loop, low in his aiders, there is no stick. But if he was soloing with MarkW at the time and found any way to make his way up a bit easier, more power to him!
Peter
|
|
bringmedeath
climber
la la land
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2006 - 07:35pm PT
|
Nefarius... jesus christ...
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2006 - 07:40pm PT
|
Peter..
don't even think about bringing facts into this.. It's the internet fer Christ sakes.
On here, one mans tie off is another mans Love-Tron™™™. Just pretend it is all true and go with the flow man!!!
|
|
Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2006 - 07:53pm PT
|
Russ,
Dare I ask, what is the Love-Tron (tm)?
Peter
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2006 - 08:12pm PT
|
I'll be the first to admit that it appears as though Peter could be right! As I said, and Russ seemed to agree with, it seemed to me to be a cheat stick upon first look.
It could very well be just a sling and a `biner, and whatever else is all connected to it. I think it's still debatable though. The way I saw it, was left hand holding onto the placement he's on, you can see the other `biner, etc. and soething in the right hand, reaching up.
Confusing, whatever is going on there. If I'm wrong, I'll certainly apologize and call myself a dumbass!!! Whole-heartedly. Fvck, it was worth as laugh or two, regardless.
Anyway, cheers guys. Headed to Tahoe for the weekend and maybe the Leap on Sat. Good times and climbing to you.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2006 - 08:16pm PT
|
Peter.... I believe it was that 40 ft... yes feet.... cheater stick that Leavitt and Slater?? had on Scorched Earth ??? Deuce? do you know for sure???
They called it the Love-tron or something. Wild huh?
|
|
Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2006 - 08:18pm PT
|
Thanks, with the multiple "tm"'s I thought it must be one of your inspired products.
P
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
The West
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2006 - 08:26pm PT
|
Russ, one time (or more) I climbed with Charlie Fowler and though I had tape (covering exposed conective tisssue) he had no (maybe, 2?) toes.
Are we both going to hell? or
he gets to be the Dante and write about my fall.
or, I can surf his karma and get left with only the burn to deal with?
Please ad....
|
|
john hansen
climber
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2006 - 11:14pm PT
|
Wasn't there some cat who climbed a route on el cap with just three daisy chains,,, and no rope?
|
|
| Messages 1 - 13 of total 13 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!