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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 23, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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Are we all stupid, careless, idiot f*#king PIGS? Don't we have any self respect and integrity? Don't we all love El Cap?
Then WTF? Why do we leave garbage, water bottles, old ropes and sh#t bags all over it?
I don't f*#kin' get it!
We haul that stuff up there, is it so hard to haul it off and dispose of it properly?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Oct 23, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
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This is one area of the climbing community I never really understood.
I think the separation between sport, trad, bouldering and so on has left a generational gap.
The folks that first did these climbs were true conservationists. The folks that followed paid attention to this and followed suit.
Years go by and the importance of cleaning up after oneself (that's basically all it is) get's lost and we destroy our reputation as a group of recreationists that care about our sport and it's (our) environment.
I'm afraid it will continue to get worse until we police ourselves in a more organized manner. WTF does that mean? Don't put up with it. When you see others at the crag dropping tape, tags off new gear, deficatiing where ever they please and generally being pigs, call them on it. I have pissed off more than one group of people by doing this and whether or not they think I'm an ass doesn't affect me.
It can get better but it takes a group effort.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Oct 23, 2010 - 04:09pm PT
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Every day I go to the Buttermilks or the Happy Boulders I come home with pockets full of climbing tape. Why? Because humans are lazy, selfish as#@&%es.
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Oct 23, 2010 - 04:12pm PT
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Mark, it blows me away too I just dont get it either People please pack your trash it is a simple request
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OfBlinkingThings
Boulder climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 23, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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The simplicity is the worst part.
Cigarette butts go in a plastic bottle with some water in it.
Tape goes in your pocket.
Trash goes in your pack.
DooDoo bombs get packed out or buried.
Done. Easy.
Clean up your mess.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Oct 23, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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trash has been on the walls since we started climbing the walls..
trad, sport bouldering big walls, people will take the easy way out every time and leave their cig butts, power bar wrappers and sh#t at all the crags..
same goes for our oceans, forests and cities..
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Hoots
climber
Toyota Tacoma
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Oct 23, 2010 - 04:57pm PT
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It's disgraceful. Peeing directly on bivy ledges, dropping poo bags behind flakes, leaving zip-locks full of sh#t on Thanksgiving Ledge with no attempt to bury or hide- it gives us all a black eye. Not to mention the ridiculous actions brought to light by Tom Evans earlier this season...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 23, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
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seems like the one good reason to carry a cheater stick
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Oct 23, 2010 - 05:58pm PT
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When I did the 'Shroom, the difference in the route after Chickenhead, where the Shield merges in, was incredible. I wound up grabbing a dozen water bottles at Chieftan (as many as I could) - and wound up having to leave at least that many.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
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John and I also hauled all of our water waste off the route.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 23, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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This always kills me too and I'm not making excuses for it but wish to look at it.
My Guesses:
1. This is Camp 6 right? People get desperate at this point, just want to get their asses to the top alive and stop playing nice.
2. Since there is a convenient hole here, it's just too tempting for climbers who aren't versed in big-wall ethics to resist. I have to point my finger at foreigners here, because that's who I see throwing things off the walls in my experience. Perhaps the materials available in their language don't educate them about what's not cool and different cultures treat litter differently. I've always tried to encourage the climbing rangers to include translations in as many languages as possible on their boards.
Peace
karl
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Oct 23, 2010 - 06:32pm PT
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That's what happens when a wall turns into a peg board. Sad but true. I always try to pick up after myself and others, but I'm no saint. LNT is not something climbers are gud at.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Oct 23, 2010 - 06:33pm PT
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Hauling your piss is bad ass!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 23, 2010 - 06:59pm PT
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I don't get leaving trash on a ledge either.
I mean if you are gunna litter, toss it off and watch it fall a couple thousand feet. Way more fun.
At least it will get picked up at tge base.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Oct 23, 2010 - 07:02pm PT
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It's not about selective compliance.
Either you litter or you don't.
The thought that "someone else will pick it up" is lame.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 23, 2010 - 08:02pm PT
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Well I don't litter, and I pick up sh#t from the summit and the base everytime. Though I don't ussualy carry a boathook to scoop crap out of cracks.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Oct 23, 2010 - 08:14pm PT
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Part of the problem is the trend towards faster and faster ascents. When a team is striving for a speed record, that crucial quarter ounce of an empty water bottle might be all that keeps the Hotshots from being venerated on Hans' website.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Oct 23, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
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Mud falcons are the problem, dude.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Oct 23, 2010 - 08:23pm PT
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I didn't mean to make it sound like you litter Lambone.
I meant to just point out that a lot of folks think others will pick up thier trash if it's left more visable.
I think this is the prevailing logic among people that litter.
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 23, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
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The folks that first did these climbs were true conservationists.
I'm not old enough to be an authority, BUT:
How many walls in the 60s and 70s were completed with a poo tube hauled off versus a thrown shitbag? Water bottles in those days required more investment (heftier purchased containers or at least duct-taped 2L soda bottles) so it was less likely to be left behind.
I would say that if anything, the current community is more environmentally conservative, but there is more community policing and publicity about the impact of trash, and just plain a higher impact through higher usage. Same percentage of idiots, but the net impact is bigger.
I think it would be disingenuous for the old dudes to claim moral highground about environmental ethics that have been "lost" in the community. But it is fair to say that with increasing usage trends, the environmental ethics bar has to keep moving higher... running to stand still.
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