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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 23, 2009 - 11:01pm PT
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To state that I am filled with racist hate based on my posts indicates only that you have not clearly read my words. My calling IDF soldiers cowards for shooting unarmed women and children in the head after demanding that they leave the building they were trapped in is not hate or racism. Yes I am very angry. If you do not understand why then you have not really read my words. You only dislike what I say so much that I become the target of attacks. I have never called for the destruction of Israel or the death Of Jews. NEVER!
But some folks on these threads have called for more killing of Palestinians. They have called for grinding them into the dust. They have called for nuking them into glass or the stone age. That IS hate speech and blatant racism. It is the epitome of anti-Semitism. But where were you with your condemnations then? Why did you not call them out? Could it be that you believe all Palestinians are terrorists and all Israelis are innocent victims? Please wake up and check the facts. I would gladly refer you to books and videos produced by impartial international journalists. They would go quite along way in dispelling the myths of propaganda that have the bulk of Americans befuddled.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 23, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
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Philo, I have read your words. A lot of your writing isn't clear, but the message has come through loud and clear. Maybe I haven't understood what you really mean? I have no idea if this might be true since all I have to go on is what you type.
You constantly talk about "impartial international journalists," but if they don't share your view, you distain them. What about the Gazan described in the post right above? I haven't read the original, but it seems to be an Italian reporter, quoting a Gazan doctor. Seems pretty impartial to me, but I bet you'll find a way to discount it and him, since what it says paints Hamas with the exact same brush you've been painting Israeli soldiers with - they use civilians as tools regardless of the harm that comes to them.
And look at your own words: "I have never called for the destruction of Israel or the death Of Jews. NEVER! "
Really? I don't think I misread your post above where you said: "if I were in his shoes I would take out as many as possible innocent or not." Since you were talking about a Palestinian man's "shoes," isn't fair to assume you mean "take out," jews? Maybe you were exaggerating, I'm not hearing you, I'm only reading what you type, but that's just one example where you do indeed call for the destruction or death of jews. (Your posts are replete with such examples; and I'm not going to go back through a thousand posts for others, you do it for your own good.)
Think about it, Philo. Help your wife's efforts. Look for peace, don't spew one-sided hatred.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 23, 2009 - 11:05pm PT
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Revealed: Israel Killed Iranian Operatives In Gaza
By David Bedein, Middle East Correspondent
Published: Friday, January 23, 2009
Tel Aviv — Documentation obtained from the Middle East Newsline reveals a direct connection between Iran and the Islamic militants Israel fought during its recent Gaza offensive.
It reveals that Iranian military advisers from Iran’s elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) were killed during the 22-day war with Hamas, which ended with a self-imposed Israeli cease-fire on Sunday.
IRGC officers helped the Hamas regime and Islamic Jihad fire BM-21 Grad rockets from urban areas.
“We believe there were dozens of IRGC personnel in Gaza during the war,” an Israeli source said. “Some were killed; others went into hiding; and others escaped.”
Israeli intelligence sources IRGC sent officers to the Gaza Strip to help Hamas
improve the range and accuracy of its rockets.
IRGC was also authorized to help establish facilities to produce the Grad and other extended-range Katyusha-class rockets in the Gaza Strip.
Israel expects Iran to expand the IRGC presence in the Gaza Strip amid the cease-fire. Iran is expected to build a Hamas arsenal of rockets with ranges of up to 50 miles, which would include the Fajr-3 and Fajr-4 rockets.
The IRGC presence was arranged in 2008 by the late Hamas Interior Minister Said Siyam, the sources said. Siyam was killed in an Israeli air strike on Gaza City on Saturday, hours before the unilateral cease-fire began.
“Siyam’s death removes Hamas’ key liasion with Iran,” an Israeli source said. “But there are others who could fill his shoes.”
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 23, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
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Thanks, Philo for making my argument for me. As I was typing you did exactly what I predicted you'd do. A journalist and a doctor- not American and not Israeli - report views that don't support your preconceived notions. Your response? No thought, no concern that maybe, just maybe there are two sides to this story. Nope, not a chance.
Your response? "TGT what a raft of fertilizer! One source with an obvious bias. "
I don't see any "obvious" bias. But I try to consider many points of view, too.
No sarcasm included, we can conclude that Philo hates and he is blind. One compliment. At least you are predictably consistent.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 23, 2009 - 11:57pm PT
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So mntyoung again with the philo is pure hate drivel.
I never said I wanted to be a suicide bomber or that I wanted to kill Jews.
I simply tried to explain that in the shoes of someone who had suffered and lost so much I would be as bad. One of the sadly lacking abilities of you who would denigrate me is the empathic compassion to view life from the other side. Who among you would be strong enough to not want revenge for such horrific experiences? Not many. Maybe Werner. The rest of you would be just like the retched and desperate Palestinians when faced with so much loss and heartbreak. I simply wanted to explain that I understood the motivation not that I condoned it. Inside each and everyone of us is a Gandhi and a murderous monster just waiting for a particular set of stressors too release those disparate personas.
To deny so is disingenuous and juvenile in extreme. But some of you seem incapable or unwilling to view life from another's perspective. To not do so is a severe disservice to yourself and your humanity. The history of the world is choked with examples of the weak being bastardized by the powerful. Truth will out in the end.
Regarding TGTs foolishness I have to say that you are obviously unaware and inexperienced in the ways of the Zionist Propaganda juggernaught. I have seen years of it. My wife's family has been abused by it for decades. This story arranged by the disinformation apparatus of the Israeli PR machine will be debunked in time as has so many other pathetic lies. Yet some of you will continue to spread these horrendous lies without regard to the truth at all.
Remember the IDF initially and adamantly denied using white phosphorous in Gaza.
Until photographic and video evidence proved they were lying. Then they adamantly denied using them against civilians. Until photo and video evidence proved they were lying. Now they come up with a fanciful story attributed to an Italian source. Pay attention this to will be disproved. Though it will be barely noticed.
The Israelis are realing from condemnations from both international and domestic humanitarian agencies. It is in their perceived interest to redirect facts to cover their actions. This is their SOP.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 12:17am PT
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So if I get this right mntyoung I am a racist hate monger because I support the Palestinians. But those who call for their destruction and for sending them to nuclear oblivion are what, peace loving humanitarians? Those who would let them starve to death in the freezing dark are what, Nobel candidates? Please look at your own words and your own motivations. I have several family members and many friends who are Jewish. They know the truth about me. But I am not the issue here except in the minds of a few misguided folks, The issue here is the Humanitarian crisis in Gaza. stay on topic and stay focused. It Does little to advance your argument to state I am the problem. Or maybe you want to hold ne responsible for the collapse of the world economy, global climate change and the boil on your but as well.
I also have several very loved family members who are black and several who are Native Americans. I suppose that makes me a bigot as well.
On another thread you have the pathetic reprobate Sirloin saying he wants to bomb a church. Where is your indignation at that horrendous posting. I don't see you addressing that vileness at all. What is your motivation? As I have already explained if you would have taken the time to read what I've written my wife lost nine family members and friends in Gaza mostly women and babies. I have my reasons to be angry though apparently you think I have no right to be. Where is your indignation against dead innocent Palestinians? Or do you think there is no such thing as an innocent Palestinian?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 24, 2009 - 12:48am PT
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It's spelled "butt," Philo, not "but." And it's poison oak, not a boil. And no, I don't hold you responsible, I got it climbing.
Re-read your last two posts. Switch the words jews and Palestinians. Can't you see that both sides share blame? If Israel's leadership is so bad, can't you see that Hamas is it's mirror? Anything you disagree with is IDF "propaganda," yet what Hamas says is gospel to you.
Let me quote you again: "So if I get this right mntyoung I am a racist hate monger because I support the Palestinians. But those who call for their destruction and for sending them to nuclear oblivion are what, peace loving humanitarians? Those who would let them starve to death in the freezing dark are what, Nobel candidates? "
Turn your words around, ask yourself the same question. Is the Hamas call for Israel's destruction the work of a Nobel candidate? Your response? It will be that I am deluded and that Hamas has said no such thing. Well, I'm not deluded; I've seen that come from too many sources not to think it credible.
And the rockets? Random firings no matter if they kill jewish civilians? Is that the work of Nobel candidates? But, Philo, you've made it clear that random deaths of innocent Israeli's are OK because they are the oppressor. Besides, it's all out of "proportion." As if Hamas wouldn't be killing more with rockets if they had better rockets. You really can't see the hypocrisy in your words can you?
And, no, I never said or implied that those calling for "nuking" the Palestinians are peace lovers. I think they're tastelessly jerking your chain, and you're so hateful and myopic that your chain is easy to jerk.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 24, 2009 - 12:53am PT
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And, one more thing. You said: "I have my reasons to be angry though apparently you think I have no right to be."
I am sure you have the right to be angry. And so do the Palestinians. And, you know what? So do the Israelis.
And anger solves what? I am not clear on that concept.
It isn't about anger and who's got the best cause to kill. We've tried anger for 2,000 years, I think you've noticed that it hasn't worked. It's about moving past it and looking for something new. See if your wife agrees.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:00am PT
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The one problem with your spurious statement is I never said nor implied what you are accusing me of.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:13am PT
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Let's look at it this way...
When 911 happened 4 high school students at my wife's school were temporarily detained without intervention for loudly saying "Let's go beat the Palestinian bitch."
They had been wrongly convinced the attack was perpetrated by the Palestinians
They were of course talking about my wife. No one in the office said anything to these boys about the inappropriateness of their threats. After 20 minutes they were returned to class with no consequence and no lesson. Now if during the massacre in Jenin my wife would have said something akin about Jews she would have lost her job that day. The bias in America is blatantly obvious to anyone with open eyes. Speaking truth to power is a lonely difficult road.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:14am PT
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It was several statements, Philo. Which of the things that I attribute to you are the ones that you "never said nor implied ?" Mostly I quoted you.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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Back to the same thing again?
You said :"The bias in America is blatantly obvious to anyone with open eyes. Speaking truth to power is a lonely difficult road."
You've said this before, as if your view is pure truth. All I can offer is that anger and hatred are lonely and difficult roads too. But you don't seem ready to look for solutions, you're still reveling in hate (which you disguise as bravely "speaking truth to power").
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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No you paraphrased and misquoted me to fit your own perceptions.
I am not "reveling" in hate. I am actively working towards the peace process. My posts here are simply to provide a counterpoint to the vitriolic hate spew of a few others. To do less would be an injustice to my wife.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:19am PT
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How? It's hard to misquote using "copy and paste." So, how did I misparaphrase you? You're generalizing, and I'm not.
I'm gone now until tomorrow. Good night to all of you.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:22am PT
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How is this for just one example..
"Philo, you've made it clear that random deaths of innocent Israeli's are OK because they are the oppressor"
When did I say that or even intimate it?
When did I ever say any Hamas member was a Nobel candidate?
When did I ever say I condoned the heinous acts of Hamas?
When did I ever deny acts of brutality by Hamas?
When did I ever condone any acts of violence?
To state that I can understand what motivates someone is in no way an acceptance of their horrendous acts?
Quit being a childish jerk off!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 03:07am PT
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Don't be so foolish to confuse my words with those of others I post up. Many if not most of them are the words of others picked up from sources like Haaretz. Like this one from a Jew working for the UN and printed in Haaretz. Go back and realize that much of what has incensed some of you were not MY original words but those of other internationals many of them Jews.
UN human rights official: Gaza evokes memories of Warsaw Ghetto
By Haaretz Service and Reuters
Tags: Gaza, IDF, Israel News
There is evidence that Israel committed war crimes during its 22-day campaign in the Gaza Strip and there should be an independent inquiry, UN investigator Richard Falk said Thursday.
The mental anguish of the civilians who suffered the assault is so great that the entire population of Gaza could be seen as casualties, said Falk, UN special rapporteur on human rights in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Falk, speaking by phone from his home in California, said compelling evidence that Israel's actions in Gaza violated international humanitarian law required an independent investigation into whether they amounted to war crimes.
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"I believe that there is the prima facie case for reaching that conclusion," he told a Geneva news conference.
Falk said Israel had made no effort to allow civilians to escape the fighting.
"To lock people into a war zone is something that evokes the worst kind of international memories of the Warsaw Ghetto, and sieges that occur unintentionally during a period of wartime," Falk, who is Jewish, said, referring to the starvation and murder of Warsaw's Jews by Nazi Germany in World War II.
"There could have been temporary provision at least made for children, disabled, sick civilians to leave, even if where they left to was southern Israel," the U.S. professor said.
Falk said the entire Gaza population, which had been trapped in a war zone with no possibility to leave as refugees, may have been mentally scarred for life. If so, the definition of casualty could be extended to the entire civilian population.
Falk, who was denied entry to Israeltwo weeks before the assault started on Dec. 27, dismissed Israel's argument that the assault was for self-defense in the light of rocket attacks aimed at Israel from the Hamas-ruled Gaza strip.
"In my view the UN charter, and international law, does not give Israel the legal foundation for claiming self-defense," he said.
Israel had not restricted fighting to areas where the rockets came from and had refused to negotiate with Hamas, preventing a diplomatic solution, Falk said.
A Foreign Ministry official rejected Falk's accusations.
"There's no need to lose one's temper. Falk is a well-known Israel hater," he told Army Radio.
About 1,300 Palestinians, many of them civilians, were killed and 5,000 wounded in the assault. Ten Israeli soldiers and three civilians, hit by cross-border rocket fire, were killed.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 24, 2009 - 11:32am PT
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Good morning.
Philo, there are two parts to my quote. The second part is my use of the word "oppressors." I don't think, though that this is the main thrust of your disagreement. You've called the Israeli's "occupiers" and "illegal occupiers." You've commented on their illegal blockade (your words, not mine). Although the word "oppressors" is mine, I suspect you'd agree its a fair paraphrase of your words.
The first part of my quote seems to be the part you disagree with. There, putting words in your mouth, I said: "...random deaths of innocent Israeli's are OK because..." I stand by the words I put in your mouth; what I said for you, you've said unequivocally in this thread.
I quoted one such instance in my post #1282. This is what I quoted there: Philo: "I would take out as many as possible innocent or not." That one quote about sums it up, justifying as it does the deaths of innocent jews. Also, I told you that I'm not wading through over a thousand post to find other, similar quotes. But maybe I don't need to. I'm encouraged by three parts of your reply. These three parts:
"When did I ever say I condoned the heinous acts of Hamas?"
"When did I ever deny acts of brutality by Hamas?"
"To state that I can understand what motivates someone is in no way an acceptance of their horrendous acts? "
Mostly you've ignored brutality and horrendous acts by Hamas, even when asked about them directly. At minimum, that is a form of denial. And you've apologized for their conduct too, as justified given what you think is oppression (my word paraphrasing you). But maybe what seemed to be "apologizing" fits within the third part of the quote above, maybe you were understanding and not accepting. If so, that didn't come through in what I read.
But maybe too, we can move on? I think the quotes above have you confirming that Hamas too has been brutal? That (some of) their behavior is heinous, just as some of the IDF's conduct has been the same. That it takes two peoples to fight here, and that groups on both sides are being barbaric (my words not yours). I think I can read into these quotes an agreement that there are many innocents on each side, and that none of them, Palestinians and jews alike, deserve random violence delivered for any reason.
If I read these words correctly, I think we have a lot to agree on.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:03pm PT
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Good morning to you as well.
The Israelis are occupiers that cannot be denied. The Israelis still try to call territories "administered" not "occupied". As they still try to call it a separation "fence" and not an apartheid "wall" which it is. The occupation is illegal by all standards of international law. This too cannot be denied. You may wish to disagree about the brutality of the occupation but the facts on the ground for the past several decades unequivocally prove rampant daily brutality. Even if we in the US have been insulated from the truth by a media filtered through the artifice of one narrative. For fifty years we have been spoon fed a single narrative replete with lies and distortion that we as a nation have been taught to believe without question. We are always shown the weeping Israeli clutching the star of david draped coffin of another "innocent" jew. If we are shown Palestinians at all we are shown pictures of them in angry protest. Or we are shown file footage of celebrating Palestinian kids from a rally two years before and are told they are cheering for the 911 attack. And this regardless of the consequences. Even when a radicalized fundamentalist (un)settler goes into a Mosque at prayer time and slaughters a group of unarmed civilians with a machine gun. We are not shown grieving Palestinians we are instead reminded of the Holocaust. To take my "I would take out..." comment out of context of "if I were in their shoes" is a disingenuous manipulation of my words and intent. To hold me accountable for or say I condone the violence because I said I can understand is a ludicrous and deliberate spin.
Regardless of how well I understand and even empathize with the suffering of the Jews in Israel I DO NOT need to present their side. We have a whole media machine to do that for us ad-nauseam. Some one needs to speak for the Palestinian condition. Fortunately for the Palestinians and the world during this latest so called "war"we have had a presence in Gaza that has gotten the truth out. There will be no hiding the truth and obfuscating reality as there was in Jenin. For any one to try and state that only 54 people, all combatants, died in Jenin is a repugnant abomination of truth. It is an amoral act along the lines of those who would deny the holocaust. I have been to the death camps in Poland I am fully aware of the horrendous atrocity perpetrated there. What most of the drooling mouth breathers on ST don't know or won't acknowledge is the 5 to 7 million non Jews who were eliminated in those hell holes. But the survivors of those other groups have for the most part moved on. They are not attempting to hold the world hostage to their tragic past. They are not ramming the past down our throats when ever anyone questions their actions. Other than the ones who emigrated earlier I personally lost every one in my family to the war and death camps. Every last one of them. Nothing left not even a photograph. So I am very sensitive to any further acts of genocide. To me "Never Again" means for all people not just Jews. Also I have a predisposition to stand up for the underdog. It is impossible to consider the Israelis underdogs. What with one of the worlds largest most powerful armies and coffers stuffed with tens of billions of US tax dollars. Using every modern abomination of war against a desperate and imprisoned people who so many of you won't allow to have even rocks to defend them selves with. What weapons will you allow them to resist occupation with? By international law they are guaranteed the right to resist and defend. But what will you allow them to have? Spit balls? Why is it so seemingly impossible for some of you to imagine being in their shoes? What would you do? What would you do if you were the Israeli trained and much loved Palestinian doctor who while being interviewed live had his home behind him bombed by the Israelis killing his entire family. This happened on live TV. It has caused shock waves across Israel. What would you do? Would you flippantly say oh well Israel has a right to defend themselves? Would you say that Palestinians do not have that right? No one deserves this NO ONE!
But where have you been with your indignation and condemnation of those who would call for more death and destruction of the Palestinian people? Those who would advocate the use of nuclear weapons against them? Where have you been? To not speak up against them, ostensibly because you assume they were said tongue in cheek or to goad me, discredits all your arguments against me. Don't you see that.
Now I know that you, or one of the ST war mongers, will take this out of context and attempt to brand me with it but what if I had said nuke Tel Aviv? Can you imagine the outcry that would have created? Even if I had said it "tongue in cheek". And yet you have Israeli soldiers scrawling on the walls of destroyed gazan buildings such reprehensible hate speech as "Gas the Arabs" and drawing picture of palestinian children with bull's eyes on their heads. Where is your indignation, condemnation and outrage at these despicable acts? Why do you instead make me the focal point of your distaste?
Much of what I post, which apparently those with minimal comprehension have ascribed to my words, are in fact reports from international aid workers and UN representatives posted from inside Gaza. The most damning and vitriolic of which come from Jews within Israel who are appalled and disgusted with the behavior of their country. I post them as a honest counterpoint to the rabid misinformation of the "Palestinians deserve it" crowd. And yet some want to hate me, blame me and hold me accountable for all the death and suffering. That is oddly ludicrous.
So we are of to another peace vigil in support of Palestinians.
What will you be doing?
Maybe ifs Iz lucky I can beat me some Jew dancers 'cause you knows I hates me dancin'.
We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as
slaves."
ChairmanHeilbrunof the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the
mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both
the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out
discreetly and circumspectly."
TheodoreHerzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the
Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.
“We must expel Arabs and take their places."
David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, BenGurionand the Palestine
Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
We walked outside, Ben-Gurionaccompanying us. Allonrepeated his question, What is to be
done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurionwaved his hand in a gesture which said
‘Drive them out’”
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New
York Times, 23 October 1979.
We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the
cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"
"A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are
already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or
else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this
colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!... Zionism is a colonization adventure and thereforeit
stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important... to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be ableto shoot
-or else I am through with playing at colonizing."
VladimirJabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923.
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do
not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there
either. Nahlal arose in the place ofMahlul; KibbutzGvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Saridin the place of Huneifis;
andKefar Yehushuain the place ofTalal-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a
former Arab population."
MosheDayan, address to theTechnion, Haifa, reported inHaaretz, April 4, 1969.
he present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people
have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill -- From the
Nile to the Euphrates."
BenGurion
" It lies upon the people's shoulders to prepare for the war, but it lies upon the
Israeli army to carry out the fight with the ultimate object of erecting the Israeli
Empire."
MosheDayan(Israel Defense and Foreign Minister), on February 12
1952. Radio "Israel."
"The only solution is Eretz Israel [Greater Israel], or at least WesternEretz Israel [all the
land west of Jordan River], without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point ... We
must not leave a single village, not a single tribe."
JosephWeitz, Director of the Jewish National Fund, the Zionist agency charged
with acquiring Palestinian land, Circa 194.Machover Israca, January 5, 1973 p.2.
"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country.
We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to
transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one
tribe should be left."
JosephWeitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department in 1940. From "A
Solution to the Refugee Problem"
"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."
GoldaMeir, March 8, 1969.
Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969
y of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a
certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no
Zionism, colonializationor Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation
of their lands."
YoramBarPorath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
y of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a
certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no
Zionism, colonializationor Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation
of their lands."
YoramBarPorath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world
attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the
territories."
BenyaminNetanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of
Israel, tells students at BarIlanUniversity, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November
24, 1989.
f I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their
country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has
been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have
come and we have stolen their country. Why would they
accept that?"
David BenGurion(the first Israeli Prime Minister)quotedby NahumGoldmannin Le
Paraddoxe Juif(The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and
that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born
and developed after the war."
Israeli General Matityahu Peled,Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.
e declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel...
Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians
come crawling to us on all fours."
Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces -Gad Becker,Yediot Ahronot
13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
" [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs."
MenahimBegin, speech to the Knesset, quoted inAmnon Kapeliouk, "Begin
andthe Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.
General Assembly were to vote by 121 votes to 1 in favor of "Israel" returning
to the armistice lines-- (pre June 1967 borders) "Israel" would refuse to comply
with the decision."
Aba Eban(the Israeli Foreign Minister) stated arrogantly. New York Times June
19, 1967.
will have to face the reality that Israel is neither innocent, nor redemptive. And that in its
creation, and expansion; we as Jews, have caused what we historically have suffered; a
refugee population in Diaspora."
MartinBuber, Jewish Philosopher, addressed Prime Minister Ben
Gurionon the moral character of the state of Israel with reference to
the Arab refugees in March 1949
"When we [followers of the prophetic Judaism] returned to Palestine...the
majority of Jewish people preferred to learn from Hitler rather than from
us."
MartinBuber, to a New York audience, Jewish Newsletter, June 2, 1958.
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our time is the emergence in the newly created State
of Israel of the Freedom Party (Herut), a political party closely akin in its organization, method,
political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties."
[Begin, and YitzhakShamir who were members of the party became Prime Ministers.] Albert Einstein, Hanna
Arendt and other prominent Jewish Americans, writing in The New York Times, protest the visit to America of
MenachemBegin, December 1948.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 24, 2009 - 01:22pm PT
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The words of the Jews speak for themselves...
We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as
slaves."
ChairmanHeilbrunof the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the
mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both
the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out
discreetly and circumspectly."
TheodoreHerzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the
Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.
“We must expel Arabs and take their places."
David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, BenGurionand the Palestine
Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
We walked outside, Ben-Gurionaccompanying us. Allonrepeated his question, What is to be
done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurionwaved his hand in a gesture which said
‘Drive them out’”
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New
York Times, 23 October 1979.
We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the
cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"
"A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are
already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or
else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this
colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE!... Zionism is a colonization adventure and thereforeit
stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important... to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be ableto shoot
-or else I am through with playing at colonizing."
VladimirJabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud), The Iron Wall, 1923.
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do
not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there
either. Nahlal arose in the place ofMahlul; KibbutzGvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Saridin the place of Huneifis;
andKefar Yehushuain the place ofTalal-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a
former Arab population."
MosheDayan, address to theTechnion, Haifa, reported inHaaretz, April 4, 1969.
he present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people
have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill -- From the
Nile to the Euphrates."
BenGurion
" It lies upon the people's shoulders to prepare for the war, but it lies upon the
Israeli army to carry out the fight with the ultimate object of erecting the Israeli
Empire."
MosheDayan(Israel Defense and Foreign Minister), on February 12
1952. Radio "Israel."
"The only solution is Eretz Israel [Greater Israel], or at least WesternEretz Israel [all the
land west of Jordan River], without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point ... We
must not leave a single village, not a single tribe."
JosephWeitz, Director of the Jewish National Fund, the Zionist agency charged
with acquiring Palestinian land, Circa 194.Machover Israca, January 5, 1973 p.2.
"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country.
We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to
transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries - all of them. Not one village, not one
tribe should be left."
JosephWeitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department in 1940. From "A
Solution to the Refugee Problem"
"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."
GoldaMeir, March 8, 1969.
Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969
y of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a
certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no
Zionism, colonializationor Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation
of their lands."
YoramBarPorath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
y of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a
certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no
Zionism, colonializationor Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation
of their lands."
YoramBarPorath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world
attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the
territories."
BenyaminNetanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of
Israel, tells students at BarIlanUniversity, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November
24, 1989.
f I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their
country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has
been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have
come and we have stolen their country. Why would they
accept that?"
David BenGurion(the first Israeli Prime Minister)quotedby NahumGoldmannin Le
Paraddoxe Juif(The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and
that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born
and developed after the war."
Israeli General Matityahu Peled,Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.
e declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel...
Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians
come crawling to us on all fours."
Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces -Gad Becker,Yediot Ahronot
13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
" [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs."
MenahimBegin, speech to the Knesset, quoted inAmnon Kapeliouk, "Begin
andthe Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.
General Assembly were to vote by 121 votes to 1 in favor of "Israel" returning
to the armistice lines-- (pre June 1967 borders) "Israel" would refuse to comply
with the decision."
Aba Eban(the Israeli Foreign Minister) stated arrogantly. New York Times June
19, 1967.
will have to face the reality that Israel is neither innocent, nor redemptive. And that in its
creation, and expansion; we as Jews, have caused what we historically have suffered; a
refugee population in Diaspora."
MartinBuber, Jewish Philosopher, addressed Prime Minister Ben
Gurionon the moral character of the state of Israel with reference to
the Arab refugees in March 1949
"When we [followers of the prophetic Judaism] returned to Palestine...the
majority of Jewish people preferred to learn from Hitler rather than from
us."
MartinBuber, to a New York audience, Jewish Newsletter, June 2, 1958.
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our time is the emergence in the newly created State
of Israel of the Freedom Party (Herut), a political party closely akin in its organization, method,
political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties."
[Begin, and YitzhakShamir who were members of the party became Prime Ministers.] Albert Einstein, Hanna
Arendt and other prominent Jewish Americans, writing in The New York Times, protest the visit to America of
MenachemBegin, December 1948.
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