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Clyde
Mountain climber
Boulder
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Both the Miramichi Fire (1825) and Peshtigo Fire (1871) were bigger and deadlier than the Big Burn. The latter gets more publicity, largely because of Bill Greely and his policies.
I'd rather see Wilderness fires burn as long as they stay in the wilderness. The ecosytems will recover eventually. Fires aren't as devastating as the media often portrays. Of course the smoke is nasty but that's a short-term inconvenience.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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It isn't bad in Jellystone, but I'm not taking any panos either. Hopefully Pinedale and the Wind Rivers will be better.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Clyde! Re your comment on my post.
Both the Miramichi Fire (1825) and Peshtigo Fire (1871) were bigger and deadlier than the Big Burn. The latter gets more publicity, largely because of Bill Greely and his policies.
I probably should confess that my college degree was in Forest Resource Management & my main college girlfriend was a grand-daughter of William Greeley, who was the Forest Ranger in charge of fire-fighting The Big Burn.
That makes my errors on The Big Burn history all the worse. Although I remember a lot of facts about the 1910 Big Burn that triggered the Forest Service No Burn policy, I visited Wikipedia to supplement my memory this morning. I regret to inform fellow Wikipedia fans that Wiki neglected mentioning the Big Burn combined hundereds of small fires, some of which had been burning for weeks, when a "wind event" hit the area. The wind & the ensuing fatalities were over in two days, but the fires lasted all summer.
Also Wikipedia called the Big Burn the largest forest fire in U.S. history & when I read that, I thought "no it wasn't" --- then I used their quote anyway.
My apologies!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there, say, ... thank you all for the updates... and photos...
and the links, to learn stuff from...
have been hearing all the reports of 'ash and smoke' throughout
wash, and oreg... from some friends, :(
recently heard about the oregon fire, but i had learned about
montana, ... very bad... :(
edit:
say, mouse, thanks for the location pin-pointer, explanation,
that helped me, as, i was not sure how they all related as
in placement... thanks!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I agree the Forest Service went a little too-far with its policy of total suppression of every fire, from 1910 to 1995, but the new policy of letting fires burn untouched in Wilderness Areas can also be a mistake, if those fires are allowed to become big smoke producers, destroy scenic values, or become huge & cross Wilderness boundaries to threaten property outside National Forest lands.
Wilderness fires also affect the stability of fragile & steep mountainsides, which later landslide into streams & further threaten our already threatened anadromous fishes.
Two things worth mentioning: Your statement about a policy of letting wildfires in wilderness burn is not quite right.
The policy, at least as carried out, is for their to be consultation between wilderness managers and fire managers, over the very issues that you mention. If there is doubt, it is put out.
The other thing is that you speak of fire as though it is a yes/no issue: it is not. It is a "when" issue. The only issue within our power is when a particular stand burns, under what circumstances.
If small fires were ignited continuously, there would be much less effect than a conflagration, out of control, under the worst of conditions that we don't get to choose.
Those mountainsides are going to burn. The question is whether we do it when we can maximize mitigation. The concept of preventing mountains from sloughing rock and dirt as they naturally do, is some sort of bizarre fantasy. Like walking into the ocean at low tide, and hoping to keep the water from coming back.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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It got worse in Jellystone today so we headed south.
Rumour has it there is a well known mountain in thus pic...
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Ken! Re your comment on my post: Your statement about a policy of letting wildfires in wilderness burn is not quite right.
The policy, at least as carried out, is for their to be consultation between wilderness managers and fire managers, over the very issues that you mention. If there is doubt, it is put out.
That may be the way the policy was intended to work, but in Idaho, Wilderness Fires get to burn untouched, unless they are destroying historic places, private infrastructure, or areas of really, really great scenic values.
In the last 17 years, almost the entire Wild & Scenic River Corridor of the Middle Fork Salmon River & the Main Salmon River canyons have burned in a series of huge fires that the Forest Service has done nothing to put out or control. However, fires at the edge of the highly visible Sawtooth National Recreational Area & adjacent to highways & Sun Valley have been quickly put out.
Currently, the largest fire in Idaho is the 70,938 acre Highland Fire burning entirely within the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness area. Here's what the Payette National Forest PR person had to say about complaints about smoke from it impacting adjacent towns today.
U.S. Forest Service - Payette National Forest The Highline Fire is a natural ignition burning in fire dependent forest in Wilderness. It's being managed for point protection of the few values at risk. Otherwise it's doing what fire does in a fire dependent ecosystem so that the forest can regenerate itself. The fire is staffed appropriately for this management strategy, which increases the availability of firefighting resources for other fires where life and property are threatened. The smoke in our area is coming from fires in Oregon and Washington as the prevailing winds blow west to east. https://www.facebook.com/payettenationalforest/
To sum up my thoughts, you are out of touch with Northern Rockies Forest Service fire management policies.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, Reilly... man oh man, :O
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, fritz... wow, thank you for sharing...
lots of stuff here, i'd never know, or, understood before,
how it worked...
thanks, everyone...
say, DMT... thanks for the link, as to the animals...
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Fire suppression is the number one problem that has gotten us into the situation we face. That and folks like me who have sizable investments in their forest home estates in the wild lands. Wild lands are meant to burn. And before we interfered in the 20th century they regularly burned and cleaned out under story growth leaving behind larger, fire resistant Ponderosa Pine and Western Larch.
Logging will never replicate what natural fires did for forest "management". We the people are the problem. we're not really meant to live out in the woods. For the nomadic people this was never a problem or even for the homesteaders with a modest cabin or two. These fires need to burn and they're gonna burn that's a fact. Not due to a lack of logging and not due to climate change or global warming. The forests always burned. That's part of what constitutes a forest.
Fire is NOT a four lettered word. It's necessary; not something that is "bad".
Right now I have 10 fires surrounding my beautiful home and yes, I'm worried I might lose it all. But I really cringe at all the finger pointing that is sure to come.
Arne
Edit-Not likely any of these fires now will reach my place but not out of the question either. New lighting strikes close by would be "bad" for me, good for some of the forest.
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c wilmot
climber
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“If the same weather persists for weeks on end in one region, then sunny days can turn into a serious heat wave and drought, and lasting rains can lead to flooding.” — Dr. Stefan Rahmstorf.
That's an informative link malamute. who knew lasting rains can lead to flooding?
Tfpu
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Yesterday sucked.
Got E and S winds today in the Winds. Not too shabby!
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Sep 16, 2017 - 06:49pm PT
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Another fire very near a climbing area started today. I was climbing on the right side of Bald Mountain above Shaver Lake. I heard a helicopter passing by and looked up to see that it was a CDF helicopter. It kept going by but then did an abrupt turn near me. Then I looked to where it was and saw smoke less than half a mile from me. I hightailed it out of there, including going unroped up the slab with my rope just dragging behind. When I got to a place on the upper slab where I could pack away my rope and change into my approach shoes, helicopters were dropping water from buckets onto the fire. I gave the helicopter pilot a thumbs up as he passed close to me.
This fire may affect some of the climbs on the ridge to the southwest of Bald Mountain. Please be careful out there with anything that is a fire or could produce a fire.
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Sep 17, 2017 - 05:30pm PT
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Today I drove along Dinkey Creek Road below where the fire was yesterday. I could not see any smoke, so it looks like the USFS firefighters have it under control. I did see three USFS Hotshot vehicles plus a fire supervisor vehicle at the Bald Mountain Trailhead. I left a note on the fire supervisor's vehicle thanking him and his crew for keeping the forest and climbing areas safe.
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Sep 18, 2017 - 07:02pm PT
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So far this fire I saw has not been reported on the USFS fire incident website. I wonder how many fires are not not reported to that site. The three hotshot vehicles and fire supervisor truck were still parked at the Bald Mountain Trailhead when I drove out yesterday.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 18, 2017 - 09:36pm PT
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hey there say, ... thanks for the updates...
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