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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 17, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
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Good one crotch. Wonder why english language news agencies aren't picking it up?
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crøtch
climber
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Jul 17, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
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I'd love to see a full English transcript of the remarks Carter made yesterday, Don Paul. My German friend turned me on to Carter's statement. It's startling when a living former president says that there is no democracy in the US. Was he talking about Congressional gridlock or NSA spying? More context is needed.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
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Why is The Guardian the only source for all this?
Am I really supposed to believe in this entrenched-interest angle that's supposedly keeping Congress and the MSM from getting involved?
Because the Guardian lies like the FBI, is that's what you're insinuating Joe?
We quote FBI agents, and Joe's reply is "They lie." The Guardian runs an article, and Joe's reply is "we trust one guy?" Watch out Joe, there's only so much sand to stick your head into, and those climate change denier's already have the Sahara sewn up.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 17, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
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Snowden compromised nothing at all.
Stupid people here don't realize he's revealed nothing new that wasn't already revealed years ago while all you stupid fools were asleep at the wheel.
All he revealed was already revealed for years.
Except you stupid fools labeled it as a conspiracy theory.
Now that the MSM actually made it front page news people became shocked like it was something no one ever knew.
Americans are so stupid .....
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 17, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
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The Citizens United case held that corporations can make unlimited campaign contributions because they have freedom of speech. Carter has also referred to this as legal bribery.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 17, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
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Hedge -- "There's nothing there."
We know that there's nothing in your head.
You don't have to keep telling us you know nothing.
You can take your vacation now.
Eat some ice cream too.
Ice cream is nice .....
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Jul 17, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
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WBraun
Hedge -- "There's nothing there."
We know that there's nothing in your head.
You don't have to keep telling us you know nothing.
You can take your vacation now.
Eat some ice cream too.
Ice cream is nice .....
SIZZLE!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 17, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
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You're reacting to drama, not facts. There's nothing there.
Move along, no House judiciary committee looking at this, all just drama... No facts ...
Hahahahahahahaha ...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 17, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
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Again, where is the domestic MSM on this? Where is Congress on this? They've both been cowed? Both Congress and the press
Joe, you a hallucinating
this story has been all fuking over the MSM AND the internet
outrage on ALL the Sunday morning talk shows
President Carter for christ sake just yesterday speaking against the NSA spying
NUMEROUS members of CONGRESS has expressed their personal outrage
yet YOU make up your own reality that it is a media non issue
on this, you are as fixated, arrogant, and factually ignorant as those on the political right you do deservedly criticize for the SAME behavior
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jul 17, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
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this thread relates an extremely important topic of conversation
joe hedge has failed to demonstrate deserving to dominate this conversation
one obnoxious neighbor can spoil an entire community if granted undeserved attention
that appears to be Joe's underlying intent...never mind why...
can we please demonstrate the mental discipline to ignore his ranting and carry on with sharing information on this important topic
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 18, 2013 - 12:46am PT
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@jghedge
He never went to jail. Never. The gov't could have incarcerated him at any time. Didn't happen.
Ellsberg never had his ability to speak out restricted in any way shape or form. It literally never happened.
Surely you can't be that ignorant of the Pentagon Papers case, can you? The fact that Ellsberg isn't right now, languishing in a Federal prison is more of a happy accident than anything else...
Kissinger: I think Mitchell ought to go easy trying Ellsberg until we've broken the Vietnam War one way or the other. Because that son-of-a-bitch -- First of all, I would expect -- I know him well... I am sure he has some more information... I would be that he has more information that he's saving for the trial. Examples of American war crimes that triggered him into to. I don't know but it would be my instincts.
President: Uh huh.
Kissinger: It's the way he'd operate.
President: [indistinct: Postpone?] Ellsberg prosecution...
Kissinger: Secondly, once we've broken the war in Vietnam, then we can say, this son-of-a-bitch nearly blew it. Then we have, then we're in strong shape -- then no one will give a damn about war crimes. ...Because he is a despicable bastard.
Daniel Ellsberg, Secrets, pp 440
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 18, 2013 - 12:49am PT
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He has ably defended his position,
That position is none.
He's defending he knows nothing.
How wonderful to spend your life defending you know nothing all while claiming you know something.
No wonder it is etched in stone.
"One can never trust a politard"
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jul 18, 2013 - 12:55am PT
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a wise man is known by the smart things he doesn't say
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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Jul 18, 2013 - 07:47am PT
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^^^ +1
Remember, freedom and security are inversely proportional.
Freedom and personal responsibility are directly proportional.
I'm used to the USA being a "free" country. I've never heard it called "Land of the safe, home of the dependent".
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 18, 2013 - 11:04am PT
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Jhedge represents a position. That position places national security above all else, including freedom and morality. Folks who subscribe to this school of thought feel the U.S. should pursue her declared (and undeclared) enemies anywhere, anytime, regardless of the inconvenience of law. They will bend the law when able and break it where ever necessary, if they think it furthers their primay objective of assuring national security and winning. Whatever winning is.
sounds like Dick Cheney.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 18, 2013 - 11:16am PT
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And where in fuk's name did I ever claim that FBI agents lie? Where?
 jghedge
Sorry I couldn't get to this earlier (I had other plans last evening).
Just a couple of days ago, I reposted this:
In a recent interview about the Boston Marathon investigation, former FBI counterterrorism agent Tim Clemente shocked CNN’s Erin Burnett when he nonchalantly revealed that the government could listen in on past phone conversations between suspect Tsarnaev and his wife, or indeed any Americans. When CNN dragged him back in the next day for follow-up questioning, he stuck to his guns, adding that "all digital communications" are recorded and stored, and that "no digital communication is secure."
To this astounding claim from an FBI agent that content is being collected, you replied:
Jul 16, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
...
And you could find former FBI agents to say just about anything about the IRS and Benghazi, too.
Essentially, you discounted the FBI agent's statement because... Well, because they lie.
Does that jog your memory?
I think Werner's right, time for a little vacation, you can't even remember what you wrote the day before.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 18, 2013 - 11:53am PT
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A couple of other related news items:
Judge refuses to drop charge of aiding the enemy against Manning
Now, if you publish anything that is deemed state secret, you can be charged with aiding the enemy.
Appeals Court Strikes Down Injunction Against Indefinite Detention in NDAA
And they can put you away forever, without formal charges or trial.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 18, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
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Joe, I'm not solo here in believing that this sets a very sad precedent.
But you have a point, I'm not savvy on how military tribunal laws infects civil law. But seeing how we're headed towards the militarization of the civil police force, perhaps there's a thinner line between the two than many would like to imagine.
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