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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Who wins? The insurance companies!"
That much I think we can all agree on...I don't have much confidence that any insurance company won't figure out a way to deny a valid claim I might make. And that attitude hasn't changed a bit since the implementation of the ACA.
Funny thing about your experience with Anthem...I've had several insurance companies over the last 10 years, and Anthem by far has been the biggest pain in the ass to deal with. Impossible to get on the phone, inept representatives with conflicting/erroneous information...they have really sucked so far.
By comparison, my experience with Covered California earlier this week was quite good- took about 15 minutes of hold time, but the guy I talked with was knowledgeable, patient, and was the most useful experience I've had thusfar.
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kennyt
Trad climber
Oregon
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This thread is the best troll ever
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Funny thing about your experience with Anthem...I've had several insurance companies over the last 10 years, and Anthem by far has been the biggest pain in the ass to deal with. Impossible to get on the phone, inept representatives with conflicting/erroneous information...they have really sucked so far.
That are all blood-suckers, no doubt. We've perhaps been lucky. I just hate being thrown back into the morass of trying to arrange something new now. I don't have spare time or blood pressure (not to mention money) to deal with all this all over again!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I'm soooooo down with that. Though I support the idea of reform, dealing with these changes have been a hassle.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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My doctor actually just signed up for Obamacare. He has his own practice, and said that it was a little better than the plan that he was currently paying.
I'll never forget what he told me: "Insurance companies are evil."
It was posted on the first page of this thread. They make money through premiums, and their expenses are claims. It isn't hard to see where the profit motive lies. They bring in as much in premiums as possible, and they try to deny as many claims as possible. Capitalism. It works great in other areas of the economy.
It sucks when capitalism runs your healthcare, though. Sort of like the military. We would have a crappy military if we all voted on each weapons system. Can you imagine watching TV ads all of the time trying to spin the citizens into buying this fighter plane over that one?
Healthcare isn't a free market and never has been. You don't shop around for the cheapest healthcare. You shop around for the best doctor, and occasionally put off elective procedures until you have the coin. Most of the time you just pay what they bill. Have any of you had surgery and seen the bills? They are in some gibberish code.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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madbolter replied No, I think what has become clear to the middle class at this point is that we are NOW being forced to subsidize a whole pile of people that we weren't before. And, ironically, they don't seem to want what Obumblecare is pushing.
So, WE pay more anyway, and they don't even care to sign up for it.
Who wins? The insurance companies!
You're forgetting that you never don't pay. Before we were paying in hidden ways through inflated hospital bills, higher insurance premiums, lower wages for healthcare workers and higher taxes. Take a McDonalds health care plan. What they used to offer would cover up to $10,000 of medical benefits (for a cost of $1,600/year to the employee). If that employee got any real illness of had to be admitted to an ICU for literally any reason, that cap would be hit in the first few hours of their care and all the extra costs would need to be absorbed by "the system." Under the ACA, that person actually gets health care coverage that will pay for the majority of the costs associated with acute and chronic illnesses.
You, as an employer buying low cost, moderate benefit health insurance for your employees, are relaying on that same system to absorb whatever costs your plan won't cover. The ACA says that you need to make sure they are adequately covered now and you can't push those extra costs onto everybody else. Why is it your responsibility to get your employees health coverage? I think it's a stupid system, as I've said.
You are correct that insurance companies are big winners here. The ACA actually includes provisions that actually caps health insurer's profit margins to ensure that if they overcharge their members they don't simply get to keep all the money. If you've been paying attention then you'd notice the last couple of years many Americans have gotten rebate checks from their insurance companies...mandated by "Obumblecare."
But listen, if you think a for profit insurance based healthcare finance system based on employer funded/pooled health insurance is an inefficient and insane way to pay for healthcare in our country, you aren't alone, but you won't find any sympathy from Republicans.
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slabbo
Trad climber
colo south
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So..how many people here had NO insurance for whatever reason ? I was a multiple pre existing condition,,can't work, no SS or medicaid..got dumped
What is the alternative to obamacare ? NOW ? maybe hit the retirement savings for $$$$ for an ECHO test ?? That goes pretty quick.
You got a spare $80 K for a new hip ?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Sketch pondered I'm not convinced that free-market healthcare is such a bad thing. For the most part, I've been paying my own healthcare since the early 80s. Twenty-five years ago, my premium was $33/month. $20 co-pay. $250 deductible. $2000 max out of pocket. It wasn't a big deal.
Somewhere along the way, it went in the crapper. I'm not sure if was hospitals or drug companies competing... and driving up costs. Demand for research dollars? I don't know. But there's no good reason that healthcare costs have risen so fast.
Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?
I love this post because it spells out all the privileges of being a healthy, single male. I had a similar plan with BCBS for years as a 20-something in the early 00's and man plan crept from like $60/month to over $100 before I finally got "real" employer based insurance for my whole family. As a young, healthy male you and I were basically pure profit for insurance companies who could entice us with cheap premiums and peace of mind, knowing full well that we could be dropped if we ever got actually sick. Anyone who was older, a woman, had a preexisting condition or developed a chronic illness enjoyed none of the perceived benefits of "free market" health insurance as you described it. The "free market" they got meant they paid higher premiums, had coverage for their conditions exempted from their plans or simply couldn't find insurance at all.
It's similar to a white guy in Alabama saying "I don't see what the fuss was all about there were plenty of seats at the front of the bus back in the 60's." And yes I realize that's not a perfect analogy and no I'm not calling you racist.
sketch further queried Have you had a hip replaced and settled all of your bills through an ACA policy?
You do realize there is no Obamacare call center taking your claim, right? It's the same old crappy insurance company but with more rules about the kinds of plans they can offer mandated under the ACA.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dave beat me to it...but what the hell:
"Twenty-five years ago, my premium was $33/month. $20 co-pay. $250 deductible. $2000 max out of pocket. It wasn't a big deal."
And then you got older.
"But there's no good reason that healthcare costs have risen so fast."
Except that you got older.
"Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?"
You guessed it....you got older.
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kennyt
Trad climber
Oregon
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I got a f*#ked diagnosis last May and I'm pretty sure my old policy would have canceled me somehow if not for the new rules thanks to Obamacare. Anthem blue cross has never denied anything and they're into me for about 300k now and at least three more expensive surgeries to go. My families policy went up 200 bucks a month but oh well.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Sorry that you are ill, kenny and I'm glad you are getting good coverage. Your policy also hasn't risen due to your illness (thanks, Obamacare!).
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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I'm not convinced that free-market healthcare is such a bad thing. For the most part, I've been paying my own healthcare since the early 80s. Twenty-five years ago, my premium was $33/month. $20 co-pay. $250 deductible. $2000 max out of pocket. It wasn't a big deal.
Somewhere along the way, it went in the crapper. I'm not sure if was hospitals or drug companies competing... and driving up costs. Demand for research dollars? I don't know. But there's no good reason that healthcare costs have risen so fast.
Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?
I've been buying my own insurance of the past 10 years or so.
Other than the freaking tax code which allows employers to buy their employees health insurance tax free but doesn't provide the self-employed the same benefit, it hasn't been so bad.
Until Obamacare.
Premiums took a big jump last year--went from high-but-sorta-manageable to really freaking high.
Obamacare may be the straw-that-broke-the-camel's back for some of us (those that don't get health care from big daddy government or employer).
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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VERY IMPORTANT POST
Let it be known that I received an email from Sketch in which he stated that I had not "lied"when I said that I had never called President Bush "Dubya".
Sketch not only stated this but also apologized to me for calling me a liar.
I have to say that damn few people are as stand up as Sketch demonstrated to me.
He and I probably will continue to disagree on some things but I respect him, period.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Sketch posted This is not nearly as good the policy from my younger days. Also, the new policy doesn't know about the plate in my hip and other related issues.
I get what you're all saying about getting older. I just think a policy similar to what I had would cost a boatload more to a healthy 20 something.
First of all, under the ACA you can't be charged more for having a preexisting condition. I've said that a couple of times in the last few pages.
Secondly, insurance has gotten more expensive in no small part because health care has gotten more expensive. You can easily read about the reasons for that almost anywhere. The primary reason that people are paying more money under the ACA is because their old policies did not have as much coverage. Another reason is that as insurance companies can't discriminate in their prices against the sick and they can't turn people away they have to increase overall premiums to make up the difference.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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The now already expensive premiums are going to continue to increase...BIG TIME.
"The administration had hoped that over 38 percent, or 2.7 million, of all enrollees in 2014 would be 18 to 35 years old, based on a Congressional Budget Office estimate that 7 million people would sign up by the end of March.:
"The whole insurance relationship is counting on them signing up," . "Otherwise rates will have to increase."
Personally I hope the Insurance for all approach works but I see it becoming totally unaffordable for the working class/ self employed that do not qualify for subsidies.
In the mean time, I will continue to fork out the $1041 per month for my family of 4.
Good times indeed!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Just accept the fact Obama sold the american people a lie!
Hope all can get covered!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I'm covered....been covered for many years.....
How about you, Pyro?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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pyro posted ust accept the fact Obama sold the american people a lie!
Hope all can get covered!
The lie that you allege was a commitment to make your hope a reality. Does that mean you're lying too?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sketch should apologize to Kos for making it sound like Kos was attacking Cragman's family...but i guess one apology a year is more than most can muster..?
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