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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Aug 27, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
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Nope.
Simon, this is about an incident that has happened. Hindsight regarding PLB's does nothing to help find Matt.
PLB's are a worthy topic, but they don't pertain to this particular conversation.
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
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Fluffy & Brandon +2
Ihateplastic
While these efforts are indeed noble and deserved I wonder (as a result of this situation and others similar over the years) how long until Forest Service and Park Service departments start dictating that location beacons are mandatory once you leave the parking lot.
A lot of worry, dismay, and effort could have been saved for $299
I am not sure if you are aware (then again you probably are)that Matt's family and friends (those he climbed with) are participating in this thread. This thread is to deal "in the now" not the could have.... should have.... would haves.......
I beg of you to have some decency as a human being. I realize this is a public forum, but this is a thread TO.HELP.FIND.MATTHEW.
Please either contribute in a positive fashion (we welcome assistance) or delete your comment.
Thanks
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Aug 27, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
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I am not sure if you are aware (then again you probably are)that Matt's family and friends (those he climbed with) are participating in this thread. This thread is to deal "in the now" not the could have.... should have.... would haves.......
I beg of you to have some decency as a human being. I realize this is a public forum, but this is a thread TO.HELP.FIND.MATTHEW.
+1000
Thanks Splitpants...and Cragman, Doug, Cupcake dude, SARS..and ...
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jeg
Social climber
center valley,Pa
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Aug 27, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
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High traverse...
I looked back at my husband's text from Matt and he said he did" a fun and absolutely classic scramble up the 5.5 direct variation of the rock route on the Clyde minaret"
Also said" the reigelhuth minaret took less that 6.5 hrs r/t to hike and climb but was scary and the Dana couloir was easy but fun and had the best ice of the trip."
As far as we know he didn't climb Michael minaret.
Maybe this can help those people who know the area and can get into his head on what else he would have wanted to climb.
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Aug 27, 2013 - 07:32pm PT
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I will try to contact the family via Facebook about the subpoena.
Also, after reading all of the posts on here, Facebook, news articles, and other forums one things resonates...maybe Matt is right under our noses. It would be ironic if all of that wilderness was searched and he was found near the campsite. Someone posted earlier that he could have been hit by a car and fell down the steep embankment off of the side of the road. Have the authorities even looked there? It could have even been a hit-and-run.
When does this case become an all out search and rescue? He didn't show up for work, which isn't like him. This doesn't even include many other obvious clues, like leaving everything behind at the camp site and not picking up his car or meeting up with friends. Isn't all of this proof enough that he is missing? We do not want this to become a search-and-recover. At this point, time is the enemy and authorities need to step-up their efforts or call in reinforcements. The climbing community and Matt's friends have been wonderful in helping, but what have the authorities really done? Does anyone have contact with them?
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
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@supermama- Understand that the Sierras are one of the most rugged and isolated areas in the Lower 48. The most rugged areas of PA don't come anywhere close to the vastness of the Sierras. Several volunteers on this board are spending a lot of their time and money at significant personal risk to get their boots on the ground. They truly feel a sense of duty to find missing persons. Authorities and SAR feel the same way from what I've experienced (a high school friend was in SAR).
A few people go missing every year in the Sierras and are found months or even decades later. That's the reality that authorities and SAR face, with limited resources to pursue situations where leads and evidence are scarce. Did you know almost all SAR are unpaid volunteers and aren't even reimbursed for their time, meals, or gas?
The Minarets area is where Steve Fossett was found. His fame, deep pockets, and political clout resulted in an intensive, but unsuccessful search. (He was found by random chance 2 years later).
I hesitated to post this...the thread is long already, my comments are pragmatic but not encouraging (we can never lose hope, can we?), and although I hike and mountain bike in the area I'm not a climber or expert. I don't want to come off as "scoldy" but hope this puts your comments and concerns into perspective. The best help we can offer from afar is any specific expertise or experience we have that helps sort though facts as they unfold, or by contributing to the search fund on Facebook.
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Jilli
Trad climber
Livermore, California/ Dunedin NZ
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Aug 27, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
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Supermama,
I will try to contact the family via Facebook about the subpoena. GREAT! That needs to be done IMO because his email account(s) could contain VALUABLE info about his whereabouts/Plans since we know he met people online to climb with. Someone mentioned above about how the email is a waste of time (QITNL), but actually, it is very much not a waste of time because we are not thinking here that Matt would have emailed his fam/friends; it would have been a new person to climb with PERHAPS. Or maybe not. But at least worth to check. I sure as hell would want to if it was my family member- would give piece of mind.
Please post on here when you find out more info.
When does this case become an all out search and rescue?
"At this point, time is the enemy and authorities need to step-up their efforts or call in reinforcements. The climbing community and Matt's friends have been wonderful in helping, but what have the authorities really done? Does anyone have contact with them? "
You are treading on very dangerous waters here... just saying. The police read this thread and SAR reads this thread.... Cragman reads this thread... they have put in SO MUCH effort on the very little facts that are known.
We do not want this to become a search-and-recover.
Not a good topic to bring up on this thread at this time. Just drop it for all our sake..... (meant in a kind way)
[EDIT] : Kenish put it much better..... thankyou.
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Jilli
Trad climber
Livermore, California/ Dunedin NZ
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Aug 27, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
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I think the problem that a few people have been expressing here in the last 24hrs (rightfully so) is that things seem to be going in circles on this thread. Lots of people give (great) ideas and insight, theories of Matt's disappearance, etc.... but the important stuff gets lost amongst the rest of the chatter. And so many ideas are brought up again & again which had already been answered upthread (my own self included in terms of hope for glasses lead). We all just need to do that breath-in-the-bag thing someone mentioned above and
*HOLD TIGHT.... because SplitPants is creating a website (to take place of the amazing Document she created) with all of the facts in one place. This will help for those who are still after a search.
PS: the whole butt imprint seat thing..... haha that's funny :) My chair has gotten far too much use this winter. No skiing, no ice... DOC's orders. At least we have beer.....
So hey everyone? Lighten up ok?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 27, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
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re-thinking what I infer from reading Matt's 2006 trip report, from what I know of the Minarets first hand, and what facts we have high certainty of:
I think the perimeter of the base of the cliffs (above the talus, below the glacier edges) from Iceberg Lake, going right to left, past Clyde and Ken, through South Notch, around Amphitheater Lake (base of Ken, Clyde, Eichorn, Michael and Adams minarets) and continuing around the west side of Adams and Michael to the west base of Eichhorn should be searched.
This it the region Cragman hasn't been to yet. To my reading of Matt's mind, a likely region for him to explore/climb.
A lot of it, especially the west and north sides of Amphiteater lake, is 3d class and much of it is loose rock.
Counting the return, that would be a full day from Cecile Lake.
I'll see if I can get out there the weekend of Sept 6.
PS: anyone going over South Col should carry an ice axe (and know how to use it) just in case. Yes, I know many people don't need one but that's largely dependent upon weather and time of day. I've been over it and found it in both conditions.
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
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Jill & All
*HOLD TIGHT.... because SplitPants is creating a website (to take place of the amazing Document she created) with all of the facts in one place. This will help for those who are still after a search.
I have been working on this today. It is going to take me another 1-2 days (hopefully I can finish late tomorrow).
I will be sending to the family first for review/approval and a couple of other people (you know who you are lol) :)
Right now I gotta take a break for a bit.
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Aug 27, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
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Jilli and Kenish,
Please do not take my post the wrong way. Everyone is extremely grateful for everything all of the volunteers have done to help find Matt. I have praised many volunteers on many occasions. It is frustrating to be on the other side of the country and unable to help. We know very little about what is going on behind the scenes and are grasping at any clues that turn up. What you here in my voice is frustration, not anger. The community wants to know what we can do to help.
I will bow out and leave you to what you do best. Please know that all of the volunteers are appreciated from the east. We cannot thank you enough! Sorry if anyone took offense. It was not meant to come across that way. You all are an amazing group of people! We light a candle in our west windows every night to help guide Matt home. Be safe out there! God bless.
Supermama
Supermama
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Dan Watson
climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
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I'd like to respond to the recent comments of Jilli and Supermama. First, Jilli, don't be concerned about treading on dangerous waters. MLPD and SAR members have thick skins and we all understand this is a very difficult and emotional issue for Matt's family and friends. But it is good advice for posters to be reminded that Matt's family also reads these comments.
Matt has been reported as a missing person since late July, Supermama. He remains an open case and will continue to do so until he is found. As reported several times in this thread, Mono County Search and Rescue is very aware of the situation and is following this thread. They have conducted some searches in the most likely areas he'd have gone to. But, as Kenish says, they are an all volunteer unit and without having a departure point of where to start their search, they cannot do more. There are thousands of square miles over several adjacent counties, each with their own SAR. I know that they would jump at the opportunity to initiate a search if they knew where. This is a group that does about 50 missions a year and they are among the best.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
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has anyone gone out and started from his last known location and attempted any of the suggested itineraries?
it might provide additional insight, and cover ground that he could have covered.
seems the timeline up until the loss of communication is well known. starting out from where he did, "a big day in the mountain" would be very much better defined.
just an idea...
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Jilli
Trad climber
Livermore, California/ Dunedin NZ
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Aug 27, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
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Thanks for the words Supermama/ Chief Watson. Sorry I overstepped my boundaries there. Was just thinking of all the effort put in by SAR over the years on various searches in the backcountry, own friends included... got a bit too defensive. I understand your frustration Supermama... Peace be with you. :-/
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Aug 27, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
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Thanks Dan...the whole process is unfamiliar to the general public. This clarifies some of the questions. I am just trying to understand what has been done and what still needs to be done. If there is anything that we can do from a distance, please let me know. I will spread the word.
Thank you for understanding.
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Alpineholydog
Trad climber
Spring Tx
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Aug 27, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
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If someone could do a slow drive down Reds Meadow Road and look carefully to the downhill side it might be a good area to search and just rule out the hit and run aspect of things. particularly to Agnew trailhead as I doubt he would walk the road to Reds or Devils Postpile. As buses are the only way in except early and late in the day this might not have been done effectively. Bus service ends after Labor Day. Access with good light will be easier.
A buddy and I will be all around Garnet and Nydiver next week and bring along binoculars and really look around that area for where a simple accident may have occurred just off beaten paths and up in Ritter Banner Notch.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 27, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
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Matt climbed the Clyde Minaret via …..a fun and absolutely classic scramble up the 5.5 direct variation of the rock route on the Clyde minaret Very interesting
There are four routes rated 4th class on the north side of the Clyde and are approached from the left side of the Clyde or the glacier.
There's a 5.5 "direct" variation to the classic Rock Route. This is likely the climb Matt made. This variation is approached from the Clyde/Eichorn glacier. (The "standard" route is approached via a ledge from the left)
So he either climbed or skirted the left side of the Clyde-Eichorn glacier to make this ascent. He most likely then took the standard descent off the backside to Amphitheater lake and back over South Notch.
To the right of the Rock Route is the famous Norman Clyde "Glacier Route". 4th class, 1928.
Secor specifically mentions crossing the bergschrund to get to the base of the Glacier/Clyde route. Matt would certainly know of this route, it's quite well known.
(see The High Sierra, Peaks - Passes - Trails; Secor; Third Edition, page 380, photo on 381)
Pretty stout to make any of those climbs solo.
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
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@Dan Watson +10 (hey it's past your work time:)
Thank you very much for monitoring this thread and jumping in to explain things. Out of sheer curiosity has MLPD issued any search warrants for the data from rite-aid and/or matt's e-mail accounts? See also my comment below to supermama as to why I am asking this question.
@supermama
It is all good and we all know you mean well and only want to help find Matt:) Just like 99% of us do:) If you have time and would like........I have a task I was going to try and work on, but am busy collecting/organizing information (and I am exhausted right now).
If you want to help you can review some of the websites I give you below (go to the forum sections) and see if there are any posts from between say 6/15/13 and 7/16/13 by someone looking for a hike/climb/alpine partner for any activity in the mammoth/sierra/yosemite region. Sometimes the user name may be something like MattGreene or it could be generic. You will have to read through all posts between the time period.
On 8/27 a climbing partner/friend of Matt's named greg posted some VERY interesting information. Basically he stated that sometimes Matt seeks climbing partners (which is quite common)via meeting people in town or on forums. The posts might not be so obvious because in general someone will post, then a person responding often times sends what is called a PM (personal message). This PM goes to the users email account they used when they registered on the forum. The problem we are running into is we don't have access to Matt's two email accounts to see if he was corresponding with any potential climbing partners which in turn could potentially provide us with much needed information:( So my intention was to scour posts on the sites at the end of this post AND to do some googling to see if perhaps there are other forums out there we need to check.
The link to Matt's friends comments: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&tn=1060); that caught our attention.
Quote: "Here is some other information that I haven't read much about - so I'll offer it up to the group think/effort in the hope that it helps find answers. Matt has from time to time picked up climbing partners on-line from places like Mountain Project. If he was in an area and wanted to do a bigger / more technical route - he would find a partner on-line and climb for the day with that person. He told me about a few epics / minor epics he'd had because of the lack of skill of some of these partners - despite what they claimed. It would not have suprised me at all if he had met someone on or off line to climb with during that period of time - particularly since he had no wheels. So it would have been a good deal for him to find someone on-line and maybe they picked him up on the 17th for an early alpine start."
Some sites (there could be others we dont know about) are:
-Mountainproject.com
-Rockclimbing.com
-Summitpost.com>we already researched this site
And you may want to google for others. If you find anything send me a PM and I will work with you directly:) Also, if you don't have time don't worry:)
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Aug 27, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
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Splitpants...thank you for giving me something to do to help. I will go through them and let you know what I come up with. If you need anything else, please let me know.
Supermama
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SplitPants
Social climber
LA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
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@supermama
You are most welcome and we thank you for any help you can provide. We all want to find Matt and every contribution counts:)
Nite
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