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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 27, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
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SeeR wrote: Yes, and I think the rest of us do as well, Bob... It's never too late to grow up.
The SeeR,
Coming from a scare little coward...ok.
Who are you?
At least Kelley has the balls to post under his own name.
SeeR wrote: Dude ur a nut job....LOL
Coming from a someone who post under a fake name to get attention. Funny.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 27, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
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Seer wrote: Bob, Bob, Bob, people are just giving you sh#t guy, lighten up, you're making an ass of yourself... Truly....
The SeeR.
Hilarious.
If is it Coz I would extremely disappointed in him. I thought he had more balls than that.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 27, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
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SeeR wrote: Huh? Does Coz work in the film industry, I hurt my leg riding at Whistler... So, I'm having fun laying on the couch?
Having fun by making fun of someone who had open heart surgery and created a fake name just to post on this thread.
What a preverted sick little man.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 27, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
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One of the aspects of climbing that has kept me motivated for nearly half a century is the wonderful variety. I like nearly ALL types of climbing......i even, sometimes, get a perverse kick out of kicking steps in steep snow.
Hopefully i'll get some good alpine in over the next two weeks in the mountains outside of Chengdu, then back home for some tasty desert sandstone followed by roadtripping to Arizona when the weather cools.
Nobody owns a climb and nobody's choice of climbing type/style is superior to any others. The only "law" i would ascribe to is to respect the environment and those that follow. Climbing unfolds into the future.....FA's done today will be enjoyable trade routes years from now. As Alex said...."the one having the most fun."
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Sep 27, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
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Jim Donini wrote:
"Nobody owns a climb and nobody's choice of climbing type/style is superior to any others. The only "law" i would ascribe to is to respect the environment and those that follow. Climbing unfolds into the future.....FA's done today will be enjoyable trade routes years from now. As Alex said...."the one having the most fun."
Well said, Jim. I would only add to throw in a dash of respect for those that came before you.
Happy travels,
Albert
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 27, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
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Jim wrote: Nobody owns a climb and nobody's choice of climbing type/style is superior to any others. The only "law" i would ascribe to is to respect the environment and those that follow. Climbing unfolds into the future.....FA's done today will be enjoyable trade routes years from now. As Alex said...."the one having the most fun."
Nice Jim.
The train wreck is over...time to move on.
Albert wrote: Well said, Jim. I would only add to throw in a dash of respect for those that came before you.
For each other. Dingus got it right on page one of this thread.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Sep 27, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
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Maybe this is relevant now that BobD is here...
Ages ago I did a route in Penitente called Whipping Post.
Great route. It was the most tightly bolted route I'd ever done. We called it clipping post!
I seem to remember the guidebook saying it had been retro bolted.
What's the story?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sep 27, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
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wtf is this thread still going? I got your "law" right here, babe. you bolt, I pull. Peace, out. It don't get much simpler than that. pffff.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Sep 27, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
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Oh wow, this got really hilarious. Who is the Seer??? Got me laughin my a*# off over here.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 28, 2013 - 12:04am PT
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mt10910
climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
oh bvb you gonna come into my hood and pull a bolt?
you better place it first.
Haha gonna smack him with your judenhut?
drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Sep 27, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
Maybe this is relevant now that BobD is here...
Ages ago I did a route in Penitente called Whipping Post.
Great route. It was the most tightly bolted route I'd ever done. We called it clipping post!
I seem to remember the guidebook saying it had been retro bolted.
What's the story?
It's runout compared to most of Shelf Road
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 28, 2013 - 12:45am PT
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Clucking move? Enlighten me
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 28, 2013 - 01:05am PT
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Real men can cluck in the middle of a runout but the sac less ones need bolts to hang from. The truly sac less ones need bolts and an artificial dingaling. Thanks
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 28, 2013 - 01:12am PT
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Don't worry chim chim I've proven that one wrong.
So retrobolting is like clucking the rock
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Sep 28, 2013 - 11:31am PT
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Seer is definitely not coz. He's way too cunning. Coz would have gotten real serious, real quick on a topic like this rather than toying with all the weenies like seer has been here, in a hilarious fashion I must add. I think Coz would have let emotions over run perhaps if he was in on this one- probably on the side of mr Muir & largo I would speculate.
Have we met seer? Sounds like You need someone to play video games & smoke bongs with while ur busted up from ur mtn bike. Careful, mtn biking is known to squish ur sac into a giant labia, something to consider before u heal up, hopefully soon.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 28, 2013 - 11:38am PT
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Not a very useful analogy, Joe. Most racing is about speed against direct competition. In F1 the safety of the driver has reached the point where they can drive full-out with little chance of getting killed. If the purpose of climbing was speed against a benchmark or competitors, then addling lots of bolts would reduce the risk, but allow for faster times, just as in racing.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 28, 2013 - 11:43am PT
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"Seer is definitely not coz. He's way too cunning."
He'll break...I have at least a thousand more photos to post.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 28, 2013 - 11:50am PT
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You guys need to just give it all up with this supertopo arguments and go climbing.
The younger generation laughs at you old drooling fools.
They're out there doing their thing while you guys wilt away ........
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 28, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
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Joe, an interesting issue in NASCAR racing is resurfacing the tracks. The analogy maybe that resurfacing makes the track more forgiving and does not let the best shine as they otherwise would. Here is a article on ESPNNascar's site about a year ago: Similar sorts of debates, it seems.
Sunday's Sprint Cup race will be the final event on this 1.5-mile track before it undergoes a major repaving and reconfiguring with progressive banking. For many, a repaving is like losing a friend, because we all know the racing -- like life -- probably won't be the same.
Out With The Old
Since 2005, 10 tracks that host NASCAR Sprint Cup Series events have been repaved. Kansas Speedway will be reconfigured and repaved before the fall event. That will mean this season that 18 of 36 points events will be run on recently repaved tracks. The number would go to 19 in 2013 with "new" Kansas for both races.
We saw how it all but eliminated the bumping and grinding at Bristol Motor Speedway to the point that the half-mile track is about to be resurfaced again; how it created tandem racing at Daytona and Talladega that nearly ruined it for fans at those superspeedways before NASCAR stepped in with radical changes to bring back the pack; how it turned "Too Tough To Tame" Darlington Raceway tamable.
Now it's Kansas Speedway's turn.
"The deal with repaving a racetrack, it always ruins the race," Hall of Fame driver Richard Petty said.
That may be overstated, but you get his point. It won't be the same, at least until the track wears in to create the rough spots drivers believe creates better racing, that separates the haves from the have-nots.
And who knows, Kansas Speedway could be the exception and be better right off the bat? Just because you lose a friend doesn't mean better ones aren't out there.
"I was thinking about it, for sure, when I was out there on the racetrack," said Brad Keselowski, who won this race last season to begin his amazing run to the Chase. "I've got a really good feel for what I want out of my car at this track and I'm really happy about it and really sad to see it go.
"Some racetracks that we go to, your whole career you never know what you need to run well. It's a shame to lose that because you don't always get that very easy."
But there are other tracks, such as Phoenix, where Keselowski had a better feel after the repave.
"In the end it's fair for everyone," Keselowski said. "It's the right thing to do."
Kansas will be the 10th track that hosts a Cup event to be repaved since 2005. Those tracks play host to 19 of the season's 36 points races.
That's a lot of change in a sport where the fans seem to resist it, as we've seen with the Chase and the new car. It makes drivers and track promoters nervous, particularly track promoters who hear all the reasons a track shouldn't be repaved.
"At the end of the day, it stinks," said Chris Schwartz, the vice president of marketing and sales at Kansas Speedway. "But we're choosing to do it because we have to."
For some, that is debatable. While Schwartz says the dramatic changes in climate -- the worst in the series -- have taken their toll on the track, he fears more what would happen if there weren't a repave. He fears that huge chunks could come up, like what happened with the "hole" at Daytona International Speedway during the 2010 Daytona 500.
"If we had what happened at Daytona it would be devastating," Schwartz said. "It would be irresponsible not to do what we have to do."
Not all are convinced. Some believe the track should keep repairing the patches, arguing that makes driving more difficult and provides the gap that keeps average drivers from competing with the most talented.
"I don't really understand why they are paving this racetrack," four-time Cup champion Jeff Gordon said.
Ditto, says Carl Edwards, who wants to win at his so-called home track more than at Daytona and Indianapolis.
Jayski
We preview the STP 400 at Kansas. Plus, more on Jeff Gordon, Brian France and Jamie McMurray.
More Podcasts »
"I would not resurface this track ever," he said. "I wouldn't resurface tracks ever if it were up to me. I'd patch the holes and keep on running."
Keselowski had the best response to that, particularly for Gordon.
"I think you should ask Jeff if he thought it was worth the risk at Martinsville that year when that chunk came through and cost him the race," he said of the 2004 event in which Gordon had a piece of concrete severely damage the right front fender in a race he had till then dominated.
Good point. Tracks don't resurface just for the sake of resurfacing, although coincidentally the repaves have occurred since the government allocated NASCAR and other race tracks a tax break for capital improvements.
Schwartz says he wasn't aware of the tax breaks. Former Charlotte Motor Speedway president H.A. "Humpy" Wheeler said that wasn't a factor in the CMS repave.
"It had gotten too rough and bumpy; we had to do it," Wheeler said. "I have found that nothing improves racing more than paving done right. The problem is, until a dozen years ago, it was very difficult to do it right."
Not every repaving turns into the public relations nightmare that occurred at Bristol, where only about half the 160,000 seats -- in what once was the toughest ticket in NASCAR -- were filled during the March race.
Keselowski and others spoke highly of the new surface at Michigan, which in the past has often turned into a fuel-mileage event.
"That race is going to be much more competitive than any of the other races from tracks that have come right off of a repave," Keselowski said.
NASCAR doesn't take repaves lightly. The governing body often holds meetings to get driver input, particularly if a track is considering a reconfiguration, as Kansas is.
Sometimes the tracks listen. Sometimes they don't.
"The one that caught me off guard, and I think a lot of drivers, was the repave at Phoenix," said Jimmie Johnson, a favorite for Sunday's race after winning here in the fall. "When we came back it was a far different race track than what we had talked about."
[+] EnlargeKansas Hole
Courtesy Kansas Speedway
A chunk of asphalt is missing between Turns 1 and 2 at Kansas Speedway. Weather extremes in Kansas and the condition of the track led to the decision to re-pave it after Sunday's race.
And let's face it, repaving a track is different than anything you'll see in any other sport. The toughest decision in football and baseball is whether to go with artificial turf or real grass. Either way, it doesn't have a major impact on the quality of play.
The biggest factor outside the car in NASCAR is the racing surface and the tires that touch it. It creates challenges for everyone, particularly for Goodyear.
With a new surface there is more grip, which creates higher speeds, which creates heat buildup in the tires. The new surfaces are so smooth and have so much grip that tire wear as we once knew it is obsolete.
That changes pit strategy, which results in fewer cautions from blown or cut tires, which results in fewer restarts that tighten the field.
"When you don't pave race tracks and there's tire wear, the driver shows up a lot more than what it does when you pave a track," Denny Hamlin said. "It becomes all about track position and how good your car is.
"I would say the driver is probably 65 percent of how you run [on an old surface]. On a brand-new paved race track, I would say our numbers are probably down to 30 [percent]."
There's no better example than Darlington, where on the old surface you'd see a dropoff in speed of 3.5 seconds or more after 10 laps, where a four-tire stop was once essentially mandatory.
"It does change the racing," said Stu Grant, Goodyear's general manager for worldwide racing.
So Kansas Speedway will change after Sunday. Teams will start on a blank sheet of paper when they return here for the Chase. As points leader Greg Biffle said, "This is just for fun. This is just for the trophy."
That doesn't mean the fall race won't be as good as this one. It just means it'll be different.
It's like finding a new friend, although as with most friends it may take time to warm up to them.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 28, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
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"Ages ago I did a route in Penitente called Whipping Post.
Great route. It was the most tightly bolted route I'd ever done. We called it clipping post!
I seem to remember the guidebook saying it had been retro bolted.
What's the story?"
Drljefe...the route was done by Mark Milligan and me on lead with two bolts, Doug Ranck came back and add I think added 6 more...a little over kill for a fifty foot route.
In fact a number of routes in Penitente and Shelf Rd have been retrobolted since the FA.
Funny to see these ice Boys complaining about retro bolts when the routes they are doing were done in Superguides, hummingbirds, MacInnes Ice tools and 12 point crampons. Sacless to say the least.
I must say I did love my North Wall Hammer. Beautiful tool.
Beautiful day here in Colorado.
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