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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 22, 2010 - 08:26pm PT
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"Baba admits he doesn't know and therefore can't have a plausible theory. I know it stinks and an aggressive investigation needs to happen but won't because nobody in power wants to know. Even if it were an inside job, nobody in power would want to expose that.
"just like the Iraq war. It was a conspiracy, totally unjust. We knew there weren't WMDs. But if we prove it was, we're liable so we'll never convict ourselves.
"Peace
"Karl"
nice statement, karl, keeps your tits well clear of the clotheswringer. only problem is that word "peace". if you really want that, you have to roll up your sleeves and forget about your tits.
jolly, the core was just in the interior. we call the exterior the shell. the floors were suspended between the two and there is no evidence, in the videos coming down or in the rubble, of pancaking. as you said, pancaking would put the time considerably over freefall--i believe 42 seconds is the friendliest estimate--because each floor had to be broken. what we saw was complete and rapid destruction of all three elements of structure--floorpans, core and shell--floor by floor, and tremendous spewing of dust as that took place. very little structure was left in the dust, including office contents or people. the forces involved were incredible, way beyond what gravity would have created in a building with slowly deteriorating structure due to fires.
if you've ever gone through the process of building a building, whether a shed in your backyard or a house or a high-rise--and i've worked on all three of these--you understand that it takes an equal amount of work to take the building apart. it doesn't happen easily. and building 7 has to nag again here. steel grid structures generally don't pancake, they're just flat-out too strong. the big candidates for pancaking are steel-reinforced concrete where too much economizing went on and large, heavy floor spans don't have the support they need. examples of pancaking are seen mainly in third-world countries where engineering standards aren't high. and every pancake happens at far less than freefall speed.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 10:11am PT
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well jolly, before you head off maybe you could encapsulate the gist of all that. as i said before, i can't keep up with this thread, but i also know a bit about how people cut corners to produce disinformation.
is this a calculation for the speed of the twin towers coming down?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 24, 2010 - 04:48pm PT
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Ahh, a week in the Meadows, what a nice break.
I wasn't going to post to this thread anymore, but rrrADAM's comments to my posts warrant a reply. Sorry for digging this up again, but I don't like being called ignorant, even by a sub-human.
rrrADAM tries to be a smart ass with a reply to a post of mine: "These people where in the buildings when the explosions went off causing it to immediately collapse, ..." He follows this with something about my mental aptitude, or lack thereof.
Well dude, if you watched the clip that I was referencing, you'd realize that the explosions did not cause the building "to immediately collapse." So please, when calling me ignorant, you make yourself look pretty much like a fool when you don't know the basic facts of the subject you reference.
And, you don't know me, so to say that I will probably not understand an article that you post, when it is so obvious that you don't understand a very basic fact in something that I posted...well, all I can say is I hope you don't pollute the gene pool like your parents did.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jul 24, 2010 - 05:05pm PT
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The crux of these kind of threads comes down to convincing the idiot that he's an idiot, when he thinks he knows a lot (but doesn't), and has access to info from a lot of other internet idiots who think they know a lot (but don't) . . .
. . . while at the very same time the idiot is trying to convince you that you are the idiot who thinks he knows a lot (but doesn't) . . .
. . . but thankfully we each know which one we are.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Jul 28, 2010 - 03:28am PT
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...at least you do
All of the physics/formula gospel preaching is getting old--how 'bout something useful when it comes to bringing down a building?
http://www.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion.htm
The click is better than a hack-job cut and paste of mine...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Perhaps a better home for our ongoing 9/11 discussion. At least the title summarizes one of the key points when it states "unknowable."
Do you really not see that the damage on the building seems to be consistent with an airplane crash?
 Raymond
No, I do not see the Pentagon site being consistent with an airplane crash. And that is exactly why I have a problem with it. And, I'm not alone with my disbelief.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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As is evidenced by the first page!
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Mar 25, 2019 - 09:27am PT
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I was hiking upstate yesterday and drove back to nyc and got a good look at our changed skyline. I would not have expected, that within one generation, we would have a lot of new buildings even thinner. There are a few around here in Tribeca.
I followed the Deutsche Bank Building tear down. The total process took around 10 years. My takeaway, was that the buildings go up a lot easier that taking them down. I think some of them will come down in the not so distant future. One in particular only a couple of blocks away from Ground Zero. It's up, but they tore down a building next to it and now it can't get a C of O.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 25, 2019 - 09:37am PT
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The real beneficiaries of the internet’s rise have been the tin foil suppliers, who must be making a fortune.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 27, 2019 - 05:09pm PT
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My takeaway, was that the buildings go up a lot easier that taking them down.
If they built with asbestos I don’t doubt it. The only reason the WTC buildings were replaced so quick was that process was circumvented. First responders are paying the tab.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Mar 28, 2019 - 07:44am PT
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The 7WTC replacement took a while to get the paperwork through but afterwards it went up fast. Hard to imagine they used asbestos. There's a private hotel in there and some other stuff.
Meanwhile there is this going on about a block away from GZ. One of these new towers went up, and next door, where my favorite outdoor shoppe "Tent and Trails" was, they did some renovation.
Seems some floors collapsed during the reno and now the tower can't get a C of O. The project seems to be frozen now. Really tough for anyone owning property or businesses on this block, the street is closed.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Mar 29, 2019 - 02:50pm PT
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I Hard to imagine they used asbestos.
Towers 2 and 3 were built around 1973.The original WTC7 was completed in 1987.
Asbestos was the standard fire insulation for steel columns in high rises until 1989 when it was outlawed.it was cheap and easy to spay on. It was even in the NYC building code as the preferred fire Insulation. When I worked remodeling high rises in the 70’s and 80’s we wallowed in it doing renovations. It was not recognized as harmful by OSHA or NIOSHA ( now NIOSH-CDC). even after 1989 there were no procedures in place for its safe removal until sometime in the 90’s.
It was all over the WCC buildings, and all over lower Manhattan when the buildings collapsed.
And asbestos has been used for boiler insulation for at least 100 years in residential and commercial use.
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