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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Curious - are you against the death penalty then?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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For LEB, it's Evil when Drug gangs kill other Drug gang members over drugs, but when people in uniforms bomb families over oil, it's just dandy.
Still, There's a huge difference when those guns are meant to track the cartel members for the purpose of getting them. Don't you get that? That's got to be better the ol' beloved, can't do wrong Ronald Reagan sending Arms to Iran to earn money to send to terrorists (i mean "freedom fighters who kill civilians") in Nicaragua.
LEB writes
Well, Karl, however good the civil rights act was or was not, LBJ's "halo" gets tarnished just a bit when he tells a colleague (re the legislation)
Then then quotes some words that look bad today.
I'd like to commend that post, which is one of the few where you show examples and evidence. Nice! Well Done.
It important to remember that LBJ was from the South and the year was the early 60s. Different words were in use then and different attitudes prevailed. Remember, the founding fathers like Jefferson even had slaves.
What somebody "Says" is one thing (like Netanyahu speaking for peace) but what somebody does is where the rubber hits the road (like signing the toughest race protection legislation in history despite folks from where you were born being against it)
Peace
karl
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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The cops there wern't much more impressed with us, than we would have been with them, had the posistions be reversed.
I see your point Rox. I agree. And thanks for pointing that out as I hadn't heard that point of view.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Moosie, whether or not they had other, different guns; can you imagine how it harmed US-Mexican relations when they figured out the story?
Hopefully we confer with them behind the scenes when we do something like that. LIke a lot of sorta-dastardly acts our government does (like drone attacks in sovereign nations) sometimes cooperation is denied on the outside for political reasons but condoned behind closed doors
peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Looks like another cash of the US trying to cut down a few diseased trees by burning down the forest
Peace
karl
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Can't offer much evidence of the following, but it is widely believed that the drug problems in Mexico stem from the very highest office regardless of the good game that office talks. Still this is no excuse for the person in ATF who made the decision to go forward with the plan.
Thanks for responding LEB. I fell asleep right after posting. It's a difficult topic for sure.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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The plum book and how it operates in every administration virtually guarantees incompetent people being brought into high level positions. Some appointees are very good and have the needed skills for their position. Not the case in others. This administration does not differ from any that came before it in that respect.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Hey Lois
Do you ever let others post to your account. Your recent use of factual arguments, dual perspectives, and sometimes a little different verbiage make me suspect you might let some friends or husband do some talking for you
Peace
Karl
As for the whole capital punishment which Crimpie and others raise, it is a gnarly issue. The opponents have a rock solid argument in saying that what would ever prevent the execution of an innocent man
Gnarly? You been posting with climbers too long!
Crimpies right about incompetents getting jobs. "You're doing a heck of a job Brownie!!"
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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True conservatives oppose the death penatly since it costs more to execute someone than imprison them for life. You don't even have to make the argument that innocent people are wrongly convicted and killed, the simple spending aspect should sway them, since they are endlessly droning on about spending cuts....notice I said "SHOULD".
But it does not. Because part and parcel of the conservative mindset is a bloodlust for revenge and punishment. It's a very screwy ideology that wants to bring a quasi religious/moral perspective to everything, regardless the real world effects.
Teen pregnancy problem?...
Con:Tell those kids to stop f*#king, it's wrong.
Reality:But abstinence education doesn't decrease teen pregnancy rates, free contraception does.
Con:But it ain't right, they gots to stop f*#king.
Reality:Not gonna happen, the biological imperative and all that.
Con:BUT IT AIN'T RIGHT!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Karl wrote: Do you ever let others post to your account.
Has there ever been a doubt? There the underline Lois, the non-fact Lois, The demeaning Lois, The I-done-everything right Lois and so on.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I find that most accusations of bots and multiple postings are usually wrong. It's trickier than that. Lois Brennen is a real person and I've suspected her posting under another name before but it's mostly her posting to her account, except for some red flags lately
Peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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SCAF has finally embarked on a course meant to reduce the powers of the fundamentalists, regain control of the Sinai Peninsula, reduce to a minimum the impact of Israel on its policies, and maintain its huge economic empire within Egypt's economy. Tantawi might be tempted, like his predecessors, to remain Egypt's leader in order to maintain Egypt as he inherited it from Mubarak. Col. (ret.) Dr. Jacques Neriah was formerly Foreign Policy Advisor to Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Deputy Head for Assessment of Israeli Military Intelligence. (Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs)
Obama, what a screw up.
Oh come on Fatty STFU!! You must totally approve of having a firm authority in Egypt, one that protects Israel, then why talk out of the side of your mouth blaming Obama for doing what your Aipac certainly wanted from him.
You guys don't want popular rule in Egypt, they are sick of Israel's policies and ready to apply pressure.
Me, Now I think it's sorta sad but that's the way this country works. We want puppets in important weak governments
Peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Whatcha complaining about then Fatty? I'm sure the government would have been happy to keep Mubarak but bailed on him when it was clear the people were going to throw him out so we better switch sides before our hypocrisy became too blatant
Peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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LEB
Did you read and understand the response I posted to you?
i did. Good job citing facts, incidents and references for things. Wish more would do that
Peace
Karl
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Hate to drag this froth back two pages but LEB made a pretty sarcastic comment about LBJ's commitment to ending segregation:
Hmmmm....... a real man of compassion and noble intent. Karl helped put the record straight in his response.
Oddly enough today's BBC online has a story about what Jesse Jackson thinks of LBJ. Remember that Rev. Jackson actually knew LBJ. So here you go.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15099746
As usual, Jackson uses hyperbole but you can't doubt his sincerity.
"Lyndon Johnson was an under-recognised American transformer, focused on those in the hull of the ship," says Mr Jackson.
"He came from a very poor background in Texas, and he taught poor children. He came bottom-up. Most presidents come top-up, and pay their donors back first.
"Lately, you hardly hear politicians use the word poverty; they talk about the middle classes all the time." Jesse Jackson says LBJ changed America profoundly. He is, of course, talking in part about Johnson's civil rights legislation.
"The 1964 Civil Rights Act made racial segregation illegal," he says.
Thumping the pew for emphasis, he continues: "From Texas to Florida to Maryland, we couldn't use a public toilet; could not buy ice cream in Howard Johnston [restaurant chain]; we could not rent a room in the Holiday Inn. Staunch legal apartheid. Johnson ended that."
But LBJ wasn't just about civil rights for blacks, he says.
"Women often couldn't serve on juries; 18-year-olds got the right to vote," he says.
"The whole body democratising democracy is Lyndon Johnson. Fair Housing Act. Child Nutrition act, the Clean Air Act, Medicare, Medicaid.
"We've done ourselves a disservice focusing on the Kennedys, Camelot and the how Lyndon Johnson inherited the war and got trapped trying to finish it. But Johnson took us way back up to higher moral ground." Jackson wasn't entirely enamored of LBJ, he took him to task severely over the Vietnam War.
Is it possible that conservatives are trying to discredit LBJ's contributions to civil rights because they don't like his efforts at ending poverty (an impossible task but worth fighting for on it's own merits), expanding voting rights and the role of women in society, not to mention the Wilderness Act?
Fair Housing Act. Child Nutrition act, the Clean Air Act, Medicare, Medicaid
Damned Socialist stuff if you ask me so let's try to tear down LBJ's relationship with black Americans and their struggle for equality.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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One of the hardest things for me to learn was that one does not need to respond to everyone esp people who post inappropriate comments at you. You can just ignore them. As a person given to confrontation, this one took a long time in coming. AHA!
Now I can guess why you ignore me when I specifically question your facts and reasoning. Do you consider facts and reasoning inappropriate for discussing politics?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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I'm on a roll
3rd post is the charm:
Say it ain't so, George:
Billionaire investor George Soros says he can sympathise with the ongoing protests on Wall Street, which have spread to other US cities.
He said he understood the anger at the use of taxpayers' cash to prop up stricken banks, allowing them to earn huge profits. Answering questions during a news conference at UN headquarters, Mr Soros said: "The decision not to inject capital into the banks, but to effectively relieve them of their bad assets and then allow them to earn their way out of a hole leaves the banks bumper profits and then allows them to pay bumper bonuses."
Mr Soros was announcing a gift of $40m (£26m) to a development project in Africa. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15155046
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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why not one more?
What your liberal jew-hating administration think of the current Israeli-Palestinian impasse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15146202
Israel is becoming increasingly isolated in the Middle East, US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta has warned.
He said Israel should restart peace talks with the Palestinians and restore good relations with Turkey and Egypt. .
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Diplomatic efforts have intensified recently to push the two sides back to peace talks that were abandoned last year.
Israel has agreed to participate in such talks, but the Palestinians want Israel to stop building more homes for settlers in the occupied territories.
Israel announced last week it planned to build 1,100 more homes in a settlement in occupied East Jerusalem
"It's pretty clear, at this dramatic time in the Middle East when there have been so many changes, that it is not a good situation for Israel to become increasingly isolated. And this is what has happened," Mr Panetta told journalists aboard a US Air Force plane en route to the Middle East.
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Mr Panetta said the US would make sure Israel maintained its military superiority in the region, but should use this advantage to press for peace.
"As they take risks for peace, we will be able to provide the security that they will need in order to ensure that they can have the room hopefully to negotiate," he said. I added the bold type enhancement
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