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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Now to finish off this rough picture a bit. There are those who figure the Palestinians ought to just give up and all move to neighboring Islamic Countries. After all, they lost all the battles to superior Israeli (US War Technology) power. Sorta like the native americans, you can't have your land back, here's some reservations.
But the 1 billion Muslims in the world don't really want to buy that or settle for it, and many of them have much of the world's remaining Oil, so we have tried to control their governments to protect Israel and secure energy resources. We supported Coups, dictators and kinds and the Muslims know it.
That, in a nut shell, is why "they hate us" Lois, not because of our freedoms. Because we have been the power behind their perceived injustices and they have a decent case in their eyes and in the eyes of much of the world. 9-11 would never have happened without this background. I know that doesn't justify it but it's worth knowing because our current occupations of Islamic lands will continue to blow back badly cause nobody, particularly Macho Arabs, like having a foreign nation, of another religion, on their soil
peace
karl
Regarding Christian Zionism Lois, I posted a Wiki link on it, I don't expect you to believe me. I've posted other "evidence" to support my points. If I'm a Christian or not depends on your definitions. Not all Christians believe the same thing regarding end times
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Lois...does he climb 5.12??
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Riley wrote: The Palestinians got screwed.
Which Jimmy Carter has been saying for 35 years.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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As for Netanyahu, he IS my man. I loved that speech he gave to the UN. To quote ekat, it touched me on a very "cellular" level. More and more, I think she is onto something important with this cellular comment. I am beginning to believe that there is something very fundamental within us which causes us to line up on one side of the political spectrum or the other.
Netanyahu is a punk who has no regard for peace. Everyone knows it too. Thing is, men who are certain of their convictions convey an undivided power and charisma that makes them seem "right" Those who look at both sides of an issue are more wishy washy and you feel them weak.
If you were a German during WW2, I have no doubt Hitler's speeches would have seemed just right to you. They did to VERY many Germans at the time, cause he was so certain in himself and his one-sided view of things
peace
Karl
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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LOIS...Have you ever considered that your hubby is the one eating the bark off the trees...?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Israel has a Manifest Destiny complex.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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. You have bought into all that Bible, "Jesus said" and other irrationality associated with organized religion. I have not. I thought it was stupid and irrational when I was first introduced to it as a child and I think it is just as irrational now, as an adult. You have bought and accepted it all.
Classic Lois absurdity
Make a blanket statement about things you know nothing about.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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How MUCH he accepted is irrelevant. He tells ME I am easily swayed and would buy into Hitler's speech, all the while he has bought into organized religion and Christianity, at that.
More blanket statements about things of which you know nothing.
Plus it is just flat wrong.
Typical lois nonsense.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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There are a whole lot of reasons you are wrong, but for starters, karl isn't a Christian nor does he accept the bible as God's inerrant word.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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LEB
How MUCH he accepted is irrelevant. He tells ME I am easily swayed and would buy into Hitler's speech, all the while he has bought into organized religion and Christianity......
except that I'm not involved in Organized religion, have studied critical scholars of Christianity, and could just as easily be considered a Hindu, a Christain, or a new ager. You can say all or none, it would be a perspective.
I put out many Christian quotes, in which I have studied extensively, to illustrate that people who claim to support Christain values here aren't really living up to the standards of Christ, whose real teachings of Love, generosity and forgiveness I admire
You've already proved you would swallow the kool-aid when you signed up for Bush's war on terror based on lies and called for extreme military action on this very forum which would kill Thousands if not millions of innocent people. That's not a long stretch from how Hitler did it. I questioned Bush at the time and question Obama now. The proofs in the pudding. You already signed on to a killing agenda based on blanket demonization. I never have
peace
Karl
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Could have fooled me.
hence the statement that you likely would have followed Hitler, as you like strong leaders and clear guidance and are easily fooled.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Socrates never wrote anything down either.
You heard of his student Plato? Right?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Maybe I should have said "the teachings in the Gospel attributed to Jesus" even though he was not called Jesus by any of his folowers, Jesus is a greek word.
This is different than the teaching some of Jesus's followers, like Paul, had about him.
But no matter, I've studied many sides of this "Jesus" issue and you haven't, just as you are ignorant of important aspects of this issue with Arabs and Islam/Israel, and what i just mentioned about your false ideas about Iraq and WMDs that called you to call for practically leveling the place and much of the rest of the islamic world.
Face it, it's all in black and white in this forum. I've never called for war or mass killings of anyone because I know every story has two sides
Peace
Karl
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Confucius didn't write anything down either. Once again, his students did after his death.
See a pattern Lois?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Buddha never wrote anything down. His students did.
man... whats with all these important people not writing anything down? I bet we have it all screwed up.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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When you are done with the personal bickering, the ATF with full knowledge support, and probably the insistence of the White House has been supplying thousands of weapons to Mexican cartels.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20114184-10391695.html
It's also becoming known that "Fast and Furious" was only one of at least three separate operations. An other out of the Phoenix office and another in Texas
Interesting that Mr. Kevin O'Reilly, The key contact with the BHO inner circle, is unavailable to testify before Congress and "on assignment" in Iraq.
dozens of people in Mexico, and at least one US LEO have died as a result of this Whitehouse directed effort to manufacture a crisis to push a political agenda.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Lois read the link...there is nothing in it linking Obama...another fantasy by a right wing whack job.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Who does Kevin work for and directly report to?
Why is he conveniently in Iraq?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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From the link..."The email exchanges span a little over a month last summer. They discuss ATF's gun trafficking efforts along the border including the controversial Fast and Furious case, though not by name. The emails to and from O'Reilly indicate more than just a passing interest in the Phoenix office's gun trafficking cases. They do not mention specific tactics such as "letting guns walk."
A lawyer for the White House wrote Congressional investigators: "none of the communications between ATF and the White House revealed the investigative law enforcement tactics at issue in your inquiry, let alone any decision to allow guns to 'walk.'"
Yes....clearly Obama send the guns.
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