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fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:57am PT
'cause it's all BS....

It's not hard to figure out.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
He is.

So Cragman, I've had to spend a lot of my time recently in zika research and policy. Naturally I've thought about Pro Life vs Pro Choice POVs as part of this process quite a bit.

You've hear of Zika I'm sure.

Would you make an exception to your Pro Life stance in the case of a patient afflicted with Zika? (a) in the case of a fetus at 2 months presenting with microcephaly? (b) 6 months presenting with microcephaly? (c) newborn, 9 months presenting with microcephaly?

Curious, your sentiments on this issue, if you care to share.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcephaly
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
Reporter: "Mr Trump, would you drop out of the race for 5 billion dollars?"

Trump: "Well I'd have to think about it."
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump


I am "the king of debt."That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt, will fix U.S.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
HFCS
(c) 12 months presenting with microcephaly?

Not too sure you wanted to include the 12 month option here. Wouldn't that be a 3 month old infant?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
Thanks, skcreidc for the correction.

Will correct.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Cragman, I appreciate the reply.

Thank you.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 01:43pm PT

Well, yes. The media gave Trump 8 times the coverage of any other Republican candidate prior to Super Tuesday, and generally stayed clear of focusing on negatives. As I predicted then, they waited until he became the presumptive nomineee, and HRC the presumptive Democrats' nominee, to spend any serious time on his deficiencies.


It wasn't great publicity, though. By the time the primaries were over he had very high unfavorable ratings. I saw plenty of negative coverage. The problem was that before the media had a chance to focus on any one event, it moved on to the next one.

Also, there were several campaigns running at the time,and fewer resources to focus on one candidate and dig deep, like they are doing now.

Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, etc. should have had the knives out from the get go, and for most of their campaigns they largely kissed his ass or went after each other. The failure to stop trump early is mostly their fault.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Don't forget his 1990 deluxe commuter airline shuttle service from NY to Boston and DC. He wound up passing that off as part of a dimes-on-the-dollar combined default settlement that his bankers and investors reluctantly agreed to.


The Trump Shuttle story is a perfect example of how Trump operates.


Trump comes roaring into a situation, wielding his trademark brash bluster and outsized salesman's personality. He arrives heavily, or completely, financed with other people's money. He demands total control of the situation, and typically disrupts what is already occurring. He fails to properly learn the necessary, crucial details about the situation, and instead proposes and instigates arbitrary, bizarre and unworkable plans. When the situation becomes unmanageable, unstable, unprofitable or otherwise untenable, Trump unloads the mess onto someone else, at a tremendous loss to his employees, managers, suppliers, contractors, bankers and investors. Trump himself, though, walks away with the huge salaries and bonuses he has paid himself.

This is how he dealt with Trump Shuttle, and this is how he is running his campaign.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/the-crash-of-trump-air.html


At one point, Trump ordered Bruce Nobles, president of Trump Shuttle, to save money by illegally flying the 727 jets with only two pilots. The 727 was designed by Boeing to be flown by three pilots, it was certfied by the FAA to be flown with three pilots, and it would have been unsafe and illegal to fly the 727 with only two pilots.

Trump instigated a smear campaign against a competing airline, Pan Am Shuttle. Trump insinuated that Pan Am's planes were not safe to fly on, because they were old and the company was losing money (this was the exact same situation with Trump Shuttle, by the way). Trump's executives, like Nobles, were horrified by this because A) it was scaring passengers away from all airline travel, and B) the airlines had always existed as friendly competitors, willing to assist each other with over-booked flights, loaning spare parts, etc. Instead, Trump antagonized and alienated Pan Am, which was a giant, international airline with vastly superior resources. Trump Shuttle was just a puny fleet of a dozen ancient 727s.

Instead of educating himself about the business, Trump would just pull ideas like those from out of thin air, and put his management team and employees in uncomfortable and untenable situations.

After numerous disputes with Bruce Nobles, Trump fired him as president in the middle of 1990. In classic Trump style, he did not honor Noble’s severance contract.




That last is a perfect example of how Trump views defrauding people to be some sort of masterful Art of the Deal. Trump vigorously insists he receive top-quality, full value for himself. Then, when it's time for Trump to pay up, he weasels out his end of the bargain.

Trump has done this to his employees, executives and managers, to construction contractors, to bankers and investors, and to buyers of various Trumpian things, such as his now-debunked Trump University.











but he did say he had 10 billion of his own dollars and would fund his own campaign

time to start writing checks Donald, you can afford it, now do it




Trump doesn't have $10 billion. Many, many outside investigations, such as those by Forbes and Business Week magazines, have arrived at a figure that is closer to $100 million. Trump once sued an investigative reporter who wrote that Trump was worth about that much, and Trump lost that lawsuit. If the reporter had been wrong about Trump's net worth, Trump would have prevailed in court; ergo, the reporter was correct, and Trump is only worth about $100 million, which is only 1% of what he claims. The other 99% is imaginary vaporwealth.



Trump's figure $10 billion is, to put it mildly, highly unreliable and extremely unlikely to be even close to the truth.

Here's why:


First of all, Trump's financial figures have never been fully open to scrutiny by outside, objective investigators. He released a meager financial statement to the Federal Election Commission that cited wide ranges of values, but no details to back up those values. Trump refuses to release his IRS tax forms, citing an ongoing IRS audit (Nixon released his IRS forms during an IRS audit).

The only source of Trump's financial figures is Trump's big mouth, which has been repeatedly, consistently and irrefutably shown to be unreliable. Trump is, to be charitable, completely full of sh#t.


Second, even by Trump's own reckoning, over half of his net worth is attributable to the Trump brand. This is in addition to the value of tangible assets, like buildings and boxes of Chinese-made clothing, that have Trump emblazoned on them. Trump claims that the intangible brand name itself is worth $6 billion, a figure that Trump pulled right out of his ass, and which has been widely disputed by business analysts as being outrageously inflated.


Third, Mark Cuban examined Trump's meager financial disclosure to the Federal Election Commission, and Trump claimed to have something like $165 million in cash, securities and other liquid assets. Assuming, for moment, that figure is correct, it constitutes 1.65% of Trump's alleged $10 billion net worth. All the rest, 98.35%, must be in the form of his aging fleet of aircraft, his real estate holdings, his various businesses, his Trump brand, and other non-liquid assets. But, that $165 million figure came from Trump himself, and has not been independently verified.

Fourth, the value Trump puts on his real estate holdings doesn't take into account loans, liens, and other claims against the properties. He has done this for decades, with lawsuit depositions revealing the accounting chicanery. Trump also claims ownership stakes in projects that he has simply licensed his name to, and which he has no such ownership stake whatsoever (that has been revealed during several lawsuit depositions). So, again, Trump has inflated the value of his holdings, to artificially increase his pompously-boasted net worth figure.

Fifth, Trump claims his many businesses are worth hundreds of millions dollars. However, these privately-held businesses are not open to public scrutiny, so their actual value is unverifiable. The only source of financial information about these companies is, again, Trump's unreliable big mouth. Many of Trump's businesses, like Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka and Trump magazine, no longer exist, yet Trump continues to claim that they have significant value, amounting to tens and hundreds of millions of dollars.

Sixth, in a lawsuit deposition, Trump stated under oath that his net worth varies from day to day, according to his personal mood. This further indicates that any figure that Trump gives for his net worth is completely unreliable, and is simply an arbitrary, imaginary number that Trump has conjured from out of thin air.



Ironically, Trump's boastful statements about his inflated net worth have hurt him in the presidential campaign. Wealthy donors have withheld their traditionally large campaign donations this election cycle, because Trump keeps saying he has $10 billion in the bank. The big donors have no interest in donating money that would be used by Trump to pay himself back for his campaign loans. They figure that if Trump is so rich, he doesn't need their money.

The big donors, like the Koch brothers, are telling Trump to put his money where his big mouth is.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
TREAT PEOPLE WITH DIGNITY? HILLARY TAKES MILLIONS FROM REGIMES THAT BRUTALIZE WOMEN & LGBT RESIDENTS:

What Clinton said today, "If you believe as I do, America values hard work and treats people with dignity and offering everyone the chance to live our dreams and cares for those in need, well, the formula for America's success have always been that we are stronger together."

Versus

Behind closed doors, Hillary Clinton uses State Department access and favors to rake in massive sums of money from some of the most oppressive regimes on planet Earth.

“Rarely, If Ever, Has A Potential Commander In Chief Been So Closely Associated With An Organization That Has Solicited Financial Support From Foreign Governments.” “Rarely, if ever, has a potential commander in chief been so closely associated with an organization that has solicited financial support from foreign governments. Clinton formally joined the foundation in 2013 after leaving the State Department, and the organization was renamed the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation.” (Rosalind S. Helderman and Tom Hamburger, “Foreign Governments Gave Millions To Foundation While Clinton Was At State Dept.,” The Washington Post, 2/25/15)

Instead Of Highlighting Her Work On Women’s Rights, Hillary Clinton Now “Finds Herself Under Attack For Her Family Foundation’s Acceptance Of Millions Of Dollars In Donations From Middle Eastern Countries Known For Violence Against Women And For Denying Them Many Basic Freedoms.” “It was supposed to be a carefully planned anniversary to mark one of the most important and widely praised moments in Hillary Rodham Clinton’s political career — and to remind the country, ahead of a likely 2016 presidential campaign, about her long record as a champion for the rights of women and girls. Instead, as Mrs. Clinton commemorates her 1995 women’s rights speech in Beijing in back-to-back events in New York, she finds herself under attack for her family foundation’s acceptance of millions of dollars in donations from Middle Eastern countries known for violence against women and for denying them many basic freedoms. This was not how she intended to reintroduce herself to American voters.”(Amy Chozick, “Hillary Clinton Faces Test Of Record As Women’s Advocate,” The New York Times, 3/8/15)

“The Donations From Countries With Poor Records On Women’s Rights, However, Presented A Difficult Appearance Problem For A Candidate Running In Part As The Embodiment Of Women’s Aspirations To Equality.” (Amy Chozick, “Hillary Clinton Faces Test Of Record As Women’s Advocate,” The New York Times, 3/8/15)

Some Contributions Have Been From Governments And Companies With “Spotty Human Rights Records And Business Before The U.S. Government.” “While Clinton is the prohibitive favorite to win the Democratic nomination, her nascent candidacy has been plagued by criticism surrounding her family foundation’s acceptance of contributions from foreign governments and companies in countries with spotty human rights records and business before the U.S. government.” (Kenneth Vogel and Josh Gerstein, “Moroccan Cash Flows To Clinton Foundation,” Politico, 4/8/15)
The Clinton Foundation Has Accepted Between $21,250,009 And $65,500,000 From Middle Eastern Countries With Policies Hostile Toward Women’s Rights, Gay Rights And Human Rights. (Clinton Foundation, Accessed 3/15/16)

Donald Trump
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
a klimmer/pyro double shot. Could someone read that gibberish and report back.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
I love Klimmie's posts now as they allow me to skip yuuuuuge blocks of text
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
Klimmer, since you are determined to go the "visionary" route and continue to call God "G-d," please answer my simple question from upthread. It's relevant, given the context in which you put everything.

Simple, simple question: Do you keep the seventh-day, Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) according to the fourth commandment or not?

Because that one's so simple (yes or no), here's a related one: Do you keep holy the Hebrew and Jewish feast days?

Now, back to your regularly scheduled Trump-bash....
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
In evaluating Trump's net worth, it's easy to conflate asset-valuation with "income." This article sorts it out better than most, imo:

http://fortune.com/2016/05/23/doland-trump-net-worth/

He could probably sell off his assets in toto for between one and three billion. However, his "income" is closer to the figure Tom is citing.

Nowhere close to ten billion, but he probably does have a net worth of somewhere between one and three billion (the vast majority of which is not liquid and can't be readily tapped for campaign financing except in the sense of collateralizing new debt).
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
This country is in desperate need of another VIABLE option!

15,805,000. The number of Democrats who voted for Hillary. Including me. Viable enough.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Second, even by Trump's own reckoning, over half of his net worth is attributable to the Trump brand. This is in addition to the value of tangible assets, like buildings and boxes of Chinese-made clothing, that have Trump emblazoned on them. Trump claims that the intangible brand name itself is worth $6 billion, a figure that Trump pulled right out of his ass, and which has been widely disputed by business analysts as being outrageously inflated.


Unless Trump can actually get his act together, I feel a deflationary period coming hard and fast on the Trump brand's net worth.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Madbolter1: Forbes, Business Week, et al determined Trumps net worth, not income, to be in the range of $100-$300 million. If they now say $1-$3 billion, that is still just an educated guess.

It is nearly impossible to determine just how much of Trump's real estate empire is tied up with loans and liens. Similarly, his aging fleet of jets and helicopters could have loans and liens against them. There are public records of some mortgage debt, but Trump could have leveraged himself to the hilt (or even further) with secret, private loans, especially from foreign investors. Trump would naturally be drawn to secret loans, and be repelled by proper mortgages that involve public records at City Hall. Trump always inflates the market value of what he owns, including his real estate properties.

Trump might claim a $1 billion value for Trump Tower, but it might have $700 million in hidden debt against it, and only have a realistic sale value of $500 million, for a true value of negative $200 million. Trump would continue to say that the Tower adds $1 billion to his net worth.

Similarly, his income and cash flow is unknowable. Trump would naturally boast about the size of his "income" and then cite a figure that a reliable accountant would call "gross revenue". Again, Trump's accounting chicanery, verbally stated for the public's wonderment, is to downplay or completely ignore expenses that offset the gross value being stated. Net income is revenue minus expenses, but Trump would not hesitate to violate everything he learned at the Wharton Business School, and report gross revenue as being his net income.

It's what he does. He has done this for decades.



There is no doubt that Trump is wealthy. But, like himself, and like everything he is selling to the public, the financial figures he presents are larger than (in real) life.



During various lawsuits, divorces, etc. Trump's financial statements have consistently been much lower than what he verbally proffers to the public. This may be a legal tactic to reduce what he has to pay out, and it may be because falsifying his financials while under oath would be perjurious, and Trump doesn't want to wind up, like Martha Steward, in a Danbury prison.






Trump's net worth is apparently much less than it would have been if he had simply invested his massive inheritance in index-based mutual funds.

So much for Trump being the Master Businessman of all time.


skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
15,805,000. The number of Democrats who voted for Hillary. Including me.

perhaps.....

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I am "the king of debt."That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt, will fix U.S.

10:55 AM - 21 Jun 2016

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ I think she thought she was signing up to be a pole worker, not a poll worker.

Come on Locker, show me some LOVE.
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