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WBraun
climber
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Apr 26, 2015 - 10:16pm PT
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That's the most interesting thing I've read here in a long time, Chaz .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Apr 26, 2015 - 10:31pm PT
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for sure...
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 27, 2015 - 08:19am PT
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Thanks Chaz for that very thorough and thoughtful response. I learned a lot.
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couchmaster
climber
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Apr 30, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
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Jan said: "Regarding Werner's blob of warm water off the coast of California. I noticed a similar thermal hot spot down the east coast of Japan the summer before the big earthquake and tsunami. Mt. Fuji is overdue for another eruption, so I surmised that must be the reason. Then came the massive earthquake and tsunami and I realized it was tectonic friction. It would be interesting to note what plates or faults are in the region of California's warm blob. If only Juan de Fuca were still here. " In response Craig pulled this bullshit out of his ass: "The warm blob of water off the coast of California (and Japan, if such a warn blob existed) is not due to plate friction. If it were, the temperature of the crust over these bouldaries would be easily measurable and quakes easily predicted.
That is simply not the case.
Besides, the plate boundary along side of California is called the San Andreas transform fault and it is on land for a good portion of the state, finally heading out to sea in the San Francisco region.
The warm water is caused by weather and climate, not by plate tectonics.
Sorry to quash your pet theory.
DMT "
Blah blah blah....Haha. You don't know jack about it man LOL. "Sorry to squash your pet theory". Right - sure you are haha. You know that the dude who came up with the plate tectonics theory figured it out (ie, guessed at it) while on acid and then was reviled by the regular scientists as all but crazy? Haha, instant replay, much like your post shut her down.
So Jan, despite her instincts being right on the money backs off and says: "Thanks for the fault info guys. I know about the San Andreas fault (who doesn't?) but didn't know what lay under the ocean. As for the warm water down the east coast of Japan, it is still a mystery why there was no mention of it in English at least, the summer before the quake and tsunami. It was so obviously unusual to have water that far north that was warmer than the subtropical waters off Okinawa. "
BINGO JAN! You should be a scientist, your instincts, unlike some others, were spot on. BTW, in case it wasn't that obvious, Dingus don't know whats under there as well. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/04/a_volcano_may_be_erupting_off.html#incart_river
Of course as Dingus says, these underwater volcanism things might be unrelated to water temperature and plates.
Hey Dingus man, YOU don't know, but guess what? THEY really don't know either. The article says "MAY" be erupting. Keep an open mind next time will ya? It's all guess work. Snippit: "Three hundred miles off the Pacific Northwest coast, the seafloor has been rumbling.
Over the past five months, there were hundreds of small earthquakes on most days at Axial Seamount.
Then on April 24, there was a spike: nearly 8,000 earthquakes. The seafloor level dropped more than two meters. Temperatures rose....."
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couchmaster
climber
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You might re-read Jans post Dingus. You are reading things into it that are not there. In either case, try and keep an open mind. "Axial Seamount is an underwater mountain that juts up 3,000 feet (900 meters) from the ocean floor, and is part of a string of volcanoes that straddle the Juan de Fuca Ridge, a tectonic-plate boundary where the seafloor is spreading apart." You don't think lava can come out when plates move? Really? You think it's a coincidence that the cascade shield volcanoes are lined up N-S? They (scientists who study these issues fulltime, ya know, for a living) are working on understanding what's going on, but don't have it yet. There's a lot we don't know, feel free to admit it, and keep an open mind will ya:-)
""The goal is to understand the basic behavior of volcanoes, because we really don't understand how magma chambers work and how magma works its way up through the crust," Nooner told Live Science."
http://news.yahoo.com/wired-underwater-volcano-may-erupting-off-oregon-194611197.html
As far as that goes, these very underwater active volcanic issues may be what is contributing to the California drought. Maybe or maybe knott. I don't know, you don't know. Scientologists and climatologists don't know. It's about keeping an open mind.
Sample Scientologist picture, clueless on volcanism but knowledgeable on drug interactions on psychosis:
I hope that was some assistance to you. As Jan said: "If only Juan de Fuca were still here" (insert sad face)
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Couchmaster has it going on DMT. I saw some photos posted, and it looks like he climbed the Eagles Talon yesterday, A4 sketchy pinnacle out in the Oregon desert. Is it true Couch, and did you have some warm water pooling?
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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This past winter's precip was comparable to the 76-77 drought, but temperatures were much warmer.
Regarding ocean heating due to tectonic friction, a couple of things to consider. According to a well researched wikipedia article, the total geothermal heat flux from the earth's interior to the surface is 47 terawatts. A terawatt is 10^12 watts, so that sounds like a lot, but when you compare it to the solar energy flux of 173,000 terawatts, it's pretty clear that the energy source driving ocean temperatures is the sun, not geothermal heat.
Anyway, if the blob of warm water is from frictional heating of the fault plane at the focal point of an earthquake, you have to explain how the heat gets to the surface so fast from 8km depth (or whatever depth). Heat conduction through rock is pretty slow. You could probably think up some possible mechanisms, but you would have to show that your proposed mechanism somehow overwhelmed the well known solar-driven processes that govern ocean temperatures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_internal_heat_budget
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couchmaster
climber
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Oh yeah Studly, haha, maybe on the "warm water pooling" part LOL. Plaid called me up and said, "You've been out too long whining about your shoulder surgery, lets get out on some unclimbed rock and totally f*#kup that near healed shoulder". Hmm, maybe that's different than what was stated as he was mumbling something about an unclimbed face but that's what I heard on my end. That was the short version.
We get out there, and based on 40 some years climbing experience I made the mistake of thinking I could free up @ 25' and simply toss a bolt in, then give it over to my man to aid on up the rest. Within moments of near kicking steps and the ball bearing effect on my feet as this thing crumbled underneath me due to just body weight on it there should have been all kinds of warm "water" pooling:-) This must be why we climbers wear pants that soak up moisture haha. I stalled out early due to the "shrinkage" accompanying the "pooling" and drilled the hole: a 1/2" x 8" deep hole that took me the count of 5 seconds to get in. I counted it off. 5 seconds. The 1/2 x 7" monster stainless steel wedge anchor easily tapped in, but the hammer was probably not needed as I could have pushed it in by hand. Hand tightening the nut made me realize that it would pull out all the way if I simply kept twisting the nut or if I simply tugged on the ##@@X! thing. So I stopped. I had a vision of just following Adam up pitch 2 of Bewitched over in the Coethedrals a couple years back and blowing 3 points of an otherwise great 4 point stance and ripping my rotator cuff (AGAIN!) hanging there like a monkey on a single hand as I'd had both the penalty slack and the stretch of 150' of rope between us. So I was a tad nervous.
Thinking if I could get a piece to back up the bolt so it would rip out slower and dump me in the dirt softer when I fall off I spend probably 10 more min monkey f*#king with a offset X4 in a shallow pocket and it looks good on paper but if I put @ 10 lbs of weight on it it rips out. Ripped out 3 or 5 times and I finally gave up. Downclimbed to the ground without weighting the "bolt" and was thinking that a good combo for these kinds of routes would be both the polargard fabric to soak up the warm "water" pooling effect, AND wearing some kind of an extra absorbent adult incontinent product UNDERNEATH to keep the sh!t from dripping down my leg into my sock.
I think I heard some kind of Grrrr behind me and a tied in Plaidman zooms right up and, I'm not shitting at all here, whacks in the largest Tomahawk Theron makes right into the blank face as high as he can get it above the bolt: no crack, no nuttin just a blank section of vertical dirt and aids right on up on it. I looked at that first placement with amazement while cleaning and it stunned me enough that it took me a while to realize that I needed to get a photo of one of those placements. I got a shot of a Pecker higher up:
Some were pretty good, some I didn't need a hammer to get out. The "rock(s)" seem to go from soft crap down low, to firmer soft crap in the middle, to total soft crap up high. The picture was a placement up @ 80'. Don't bother with cams or nuts, there are no places anywhere for them. Don't ask me where the incipient seam went, but it didn't "seam" to bother Plaid as you can see. I was impressed by the lad. Lad, heck, we go hiking up and run into 2 horsemen sitting up on the rim. I'm chatting when Plaid comes up with his haul bag on. Horseman dude says: Hey, you got an old guy with ya". I laugh and say: "Old? He's almost 20 years younger than me and he just led that tower over there." I was left wondering why those towers are still standing.
Anyway, I have another appointment with my surgeon in 2 hours to talk about why my shoulder still hurts. I don't think I will mention the extracurricular activities of last Saturday with Plaidman or some of the other crap I've been getting into on my weekends:-) Interesting statistic. My drill battery has a button that tells you how charged up it is. We did 5 (total) 1/2 x 8" deep holes. Got home, still "fully charged". LOL.
Studly said: "Couchmaster has it going on DMT. I saw some photos posted, and it looks like he climbed the Eagles Talon yesterday, A4 sketchy pinnacle out in the Oregon desert. Is it true Couch, and did you have some warm water pooling?"
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couchmaster
climber
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OK: got a steroid shot into the shoulder joint last night from the surgeon. GTG for the next POS tower.
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Plaidman
Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
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Turkey Monster is next on the list.
Plaid
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John M
climber
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May 10, 2015 - 09:31am PT
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http://www.kvml.com/2015/03/pine-tree-die-off-worsens-as-beetles-thrive-in-drought
between the drought and the beetles the number of dead trees between Oakhurst and Wawona is pretty bad. I was gone for 9 months last year and got back here in Wawona at the end of March. It didn't seem too bad, but in the last month I have noticed more and more. In 50 plus years of going to the park and 24 years of living there I have not seen it this bad. In Wawona they are cutting them down left and right, so you don't notice it as much, but if you have looked in the woodyard lately then you know just how much the park has been cutting. And its not must pines. Firs and cedars are dying too.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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May 11, 2015 - 08:32am PT
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Are you conserving water? Doing your part? Pitching in?
If so, you're working on behalf of the big developers.
From the article "DROUGHT: Why does California keep building houses?" found in The Riverside Tattler:
“Part of smart water management is reducing that per capita use so you can stretch available supplies to support development.”
http://www.pe.com/articles/water-766792-year-homes.html
I don't feel like supporting development - if there's no money in it for me.
I doubt there's a person anywhere who's against conserving water because we're almost out. But if there's enough water for Lewis Homes and KB Homes to buy low, sell high, and move on after exacerbating the problems of overcrowding, road congestion, and resource depletion, then why is anyone being asked - no forced, to the tune of $10,000/day fines for non-compliance - to change their behavior?
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BBA
Social climber
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May 12, 2015 - 06:44am PT
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Drought depends on which part of the state. Sonoma and Marin Counties are looking good, no problem this water year. The prior year was bad, and if we had another like it this year, things would be getting scary.
The big high pressure area has been in control for most of the winter. It only broke down twice and we got a lot of rain in those periods. The scenario for climate and its related weather seems to be following the path suggested by the scientists, warming and drying here with occasional violent storms.
The scenario for uncontrolled population growth is also playing out as we might expect.
Here's our water situation:
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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May 12, 2015 - 10:27am PT
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*
Every little bit helps..Looks like we are getting precip this week in Yosemite & Lassen and many parts of the State.
Snowing today in Lassen.
@ Manzanita Lake
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 12, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
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hey there say, nita... wow, thanks for the snow update pics...
and sure hope that helps... my mom and i were just talking about that, the other night...
though, we both, do not know how much would help the most, etc, or all the more tech stuff,as to where the run-offs best benefit, but at least we can share and be happy, for it, too...
right now, in san jose, it's been cool and overcast, and a bit cold, so she is happy things are not 'burning hot' as to the fields, etc...
and as everyone, would love some rain...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 12, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
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Lake Mead last week at its all time low point.
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