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HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 30, 2011 - 06:48pm PT
CrackAddict
re: Solyndra
Congress and the FBI are investigating. Draw your conclusions when the facts are known. What did Solyndra do to mislead their VC's, who lost about $2billion, and the DOE? What due diligence did DOE do? Why didn't the VC's have a clue? Usually they're all over the books and management of companies they're starting.
Funny, you don't hear much about the billions of $$ the US spends on defense programs that don't work out. Would you like a list? Have you got all day to read it?
Any good capitalist will tell you that R&D funding is a crap shoot. If we don't play the game for alternative energy funding, the Euros and Chinese will eat our lunch in yet another industry segment that is critical to our long term prosperity.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Sep 30, 2011 - 07:12pm PT
So what exactly do we seriously "want" our current congress and President to DO?

Do we want "spending" cut" ? By how much each year?

And exactly what do we want cut?
Military budget? 700 billion now
Medicare? 700 billion now
Pull all troops out of Afghan and Iraq right now? Save a couple hundred billion a year?

Please be specific: Because of the tax cuts and recession induced loss of revenue, we
are currently bringing in about one trillion dollars a year LESS than we spend.

VERY roughly: We get 2 trillion in revenue and spend 3 trillion a year, with the difference going on to the national debt, currently around 14 trillion.

Is the solution ONLY to dramatically cut spending?

Should we raise some revenue by closing tax loopholes and raising taxes on those making over say $500,000 a year?

Or how about half and half, cut spending the same amount we close loopholes and raise taxes by?
--------


We all can sit in the bleachers and criticize all day long.

OR, we can specific and offer real world solutions to our continuing "debt" problem.

Can I invite your responses, no political blaming or grandstanding, only "solutions"?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Sep 30, 2011 - 07:28pm PT
AGAIN,

Please offer concrete and specific SOLUTIONS, generalized comments are a dime a dozen
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 30, 2011 - 07:43pm PT
High Traverse
There is a legal process for these cases and it was followed.

Not really, his Dad went to court to try to prove he wasn't involved the way the government claimed and to prevent him from being assassinated but the court refused to hear it because you can't do that to the CIA.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/09/25/secrecy

and he wasn't the super terrorist kingpin the adminstration would have us believe anyway. From an NY Times piece

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/20/opinion/20johnsen.html

He is far from the terrorist kingpin that the West has made him out to be. In fact, he isn’t even the head of his own organization, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. That would be Nasir al-Wuhayshi, who was Osama bin Laden’s personal secretary for four years in Afghanistan.

Nor is Mr. Awlaki the deputy commander, a position held by Said Ali al-Shihri, a former detainee at Guantánamo Bay who was repatriated to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and put in a “terrorist rehabilitation” program. (The treatment, clearly, did not take.)

Mr. Awlaki isn’t the group’s top religious scholar (Adil al-Abab), its chief of military operations (Qassim al-Raymi), its bomb maker (Ibrahim Hassan Asiri) or even its leading ideologue (Ibrahim Suleiman al-Rubaysh).

Rather, he is a midlevel religious functionary who happens to have American citizenship and speak English. This makes him a propaganda threat, but not one whose elimination would do anything to limit the reach of the Qaeda branch........Now, however, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is taking advantage of this free advertising. No propaganda from the group had ever mentioned his name before it was reported in January that the United States had decided he could be legally assassinated. Shortly after, an article in the official Qaeda journal trumpeted that Mr. Awlaki had not been killed in December, as had been reported, in an air attack on a gathering in Shabwa Province.

So now that it has given Mr. Awlaki such a high profile, the administration is in a bind: if it ignores him, it will look powerless; if it succeeds in killing him, it will have manufactured a martyr. ....

Which is what the US did today. We made the guy into a big deal and then made a martyr of him and the constitution.

Would you support the use of drones to just blow up that home at Ruby Ridge, or wipe out the compound at Waco? How much difference in the law would there be?

peace

karl
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Sep 30, 2011 - 08:15pm PT
If you put that same moral into Obama's bailout of the Auto Industry, there would be many thousands more unemployed long term right now. You lose sometimes but some things have to be done for the greater good

The only thing Obama bailed out in this was his Union contributors. A real bankruptcy would have allowed the companies to restructure in a more sustainable way, and get out of some of their union contracts. This has been done countless times by countless companies, it is never the end of the World, and usually leads to these assets being governed by better management. Obama violated the constition by screwing the Bondholders (who are supposed to be paid out first in a Bankruptcy) and paying out the Unions.
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Sep 30, 2011 - 08:20pm PT
re: Solyndra
Congress and the FBI are investigating. Draw your conclusions when the facts are known. What did Solyndra do to mislead their VC's, who lost about $2billion, and the DOE? What due diligence did DOE do? Why didn't the VC's have a clue? Usually they're all over the books and management of companies they're starting.
Funny, you don't hear much about the billions of $$ the US spends on defense programs that don't work out. Would you like a list? Have you got all day to read it?
Any good capitalist will tell you that R&D funding is a crap shoot. If we don't play the game for alternative energy funding, the Euros and Chinese will eat our lunch in yet another industry segment that is critical to our long term prosperity.

Did you read the article? No private capital would go anywhere NEAR this company, that should have been a red flag. They created some cool looking and innovative solar panels, but the bottom line was they cost 3X as much as the competition for the energy they produced. Would YOU invest in a company like that? And no offense, but you probably are not Warren Buffet.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 30, 2011 - 08:29pm PT
How do you guys feel about 36 billion dollars in Loan Guarantees the Nuclear Industry is requesting?

Peace


karl
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Sep 30, 2011 - 08:43pm PT
How do you guys feel about 36 billion dollars in Loan Guarantees the Nuclear Industry is requesting?


Personally I think nuclear is the best option we have right now for "clean" energy. Nuclear is not cost effective vs. oil, but that is entirely due to regulatory burden (and of course NIMBYism).

There are fantastic nuclear designs out there right now, like the Pebble Bed reactor, that (theoretically) cannot have a meltdown. The problem is no money goes into these designs because people are terrified of Nuclear, so we are stuck with 40 and 50 year old reactors.

Check out these babies:
http://gigaom.com/cleantech/terrapower-how-the-travelling-wave-nuclear-reactor-works/

I think if we are going to give loan guarantees to anyone, Nuclear is one of our best practical bets.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 30, 2011 - 08:48pm PT
I think if we are going to give loan guarantees to anyone, Nuclear is one of our best practical bets.

Huh? Ever heard of Fukashima?

Not to mention that Nuclear costs big bucks, can't get their own insurance, and must have loan guarantees to contemplate building. All the government welfare that conservatives don't believe in and complain about except for nuclear. and talk about debt..having to guard and manage nuclear waste for thousands of years after it's worthless is a cost nobody wants to figure

Such a double standard with Solyndra, which only really went bust cause competing solar technologies got cheaper. That's sorta good energy news.

So 1/2 billion makes a scandal when it's solar but nuke plants have often eaten up big bucks but not finished construction and that's okey doeky?

Peace

Karl

from the Wiki on sunk costs

An important example of this is related to nuclear power. In the late 1980s, about two dozen partially complete nuclear power plants dotted the USA's landscape. Some had already absorbed billions of dollars of investment but were not yet ready to operate.
One particularly difficult case was the Shoreham plant on Long Island Sound, New York. By 1987 the owner had spent $5.5 billion on bricks, mortar, fuel rods, and interest, but the operating license had not been granted. From an economic point of view, the $5.5 billion of past investments should not be weighed in decision-making processes.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 30, 2011 - 09:03pm PT
But Funny thing Lois

You were always defending Bush and voted for him a second time, but he never did the thing that we spend trillions to do, get Bin Laden

Now Obama got Bin Laden and this other new supposedly top guy and a most the other top guys and gets no credit from you.

Just sayin'

You say Obama's got no results but saving the auto industry, pulling us out of economic collapse, and the war on terror, should by your perspective be victories. It's like saying "I paid $200,000 for this heart transplant and the doc says I still can't play tennis"

peace

karl
dirtbag

climber
Sep 30, 2011 - 09:13pm PT
Keep it up guys...Karl, FM. jghedge, Norton, etc...good work
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 30, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
Obama stole from the GM senior bond holders (widows and retires) to pay off his supporters, the unions..

But then this is a Democrat tactic with a long tradition.

Starting with Andy Jackson robing the Cherokee to pay of his southern white trash constituents.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 30, 2011 - 09:55pm PT
Karl
and he wasn't the super terrorist kingpin the adminstration would have us believe anyway. From an NY Times piece
That NYT article is from Nov 9 2010. A lot more has come to light about him since then and he's also become more visible and active as other A-Q leaders have been dispatched. In the past year he's become a significant cheerleader and recruiter for A-Q.
I mentioned that I share your concerns about secret assassination orders. Except, note they are no longer secret after the fact.
There'll also be some al-awlaki idolatry among Islamic radicals. Given the human cost in trying to take him alive for trial, I still think it was a good call.
Peace (most of the time)
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 30, 2011 - 10:04pm PT
He could be Karl Rove posing as a climber
He has zero evidence of being who he says he is

Hedge vouched that he's a serious climber and it's not like they agree

Don't be what you bag on others about. Question Crack's arguments since he's at least going to the trouble to make them

and he's made it plain a few times that he's not a republican, but a libertarian. It looks stupid when you bag on people for what they never said.

Peace

karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 30, 2011 - 10:12pm PT
Given the human cost in trying to take him alive for trial, I still think it was a good call.

Yemen could have done it themselves. Still, now he's a martyr and we violated the airspace of a country we aren't at war with and perhaps violated our own constitution. Again, if they used a drone to bomb at Ruby Ridge, would you approve?

How much of the constitution will you shred to "protect" our freedom? Is it really so dangerous out there? Most the foiled terrorist plots since 9-11 have been the toe bomber, panty bomber and other lame or simply rumored general threats.

Far too often we are ready to throw out civil rights the instant we are afraid and then in a few years, the same rights are violated to squash domestic protest and dissent.

Peace

karl
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 30, 2011 - 10:17pm PT
karl,
all good points except Ruby Ridge. Which was indeed atrocious. Not comparable because access to the supposed miscreants was easy. As evidenced by the outcome.
I share your concerns in general about erosion of civil rights and I believe several part of the "Patriot Act" are very dangerous law.
I agree to disagree on this one.
Peace back at ya
Fred

Edit: 11 more posts to 20,000. Must've been a thousand this week. And so much angst, slander and general noise.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Sep 30, 2011 - 10:21pm PT
I am going to nuke this thread in 9 more posts, right at 20,000

Some one else can start a political thread
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Sep 30, 2011 - 10:32pm PT
Thank you Norton. Please do it!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Sep 30, 2011 - 10:32pm PT
7
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 30, 2011 - 10:42pm PT

What's the point of posting to it anymore then?
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