Poitipocalypse Redux

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HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2016 - 11:48am PT
bluering posted
This is the problem with the Dem party you don't get. Obsession with silly, trivial stuff. Ignoring the realities.


Again, this is beautiful because you are so eager to scream "oppression." When faced with the reality of oppression in America you dismiss it as "trivial" and "silly."

Can you actually articulate how Japan, China and Mexico are "screwing us?" Because the United States still has one of the healthiest economies in the world. Most of the structural changes that resulted in loss of wealth or loss of jobs were due to decisions made by our own businesses. Jobs went to China because American businesses saw it was profitable to do so. The fact that you think it's China's fault is perfectly demonstrative of your bias. Japan has been struggling for years. How are they "screwing us?" Mexico is hugely dependent on the US economy and NAFTA crushed jobs in Mexico in a similar way that it did in the US. Certain people lost their jobs while others got new ones. The people who lost their jobs tended to be unskilled laborers and farmers and saw little opportunity outside moving to the United States. Corn farmers, for instance, were decimated in Mexico because the US subsidizes corn. If you were a corn farmer you moved to where the corn jobs were....America.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 22, 2016 - 11:49am PT
This doesn't exactly scream "we love you" to certain populations in my opinion. Maybe others see it differently.

Marriage, Family, and Society

Foremost among those institutions is the American family. It is the foundation of civil society, and the cornerstone of the family is natural marriage, the union of one man and one woman. Its daily lessons — cooperation, patience, mutual respect, responsibility, self-reliance — are fundamental to the order and progress of our Republic. (from page 31)

We oppose policies and laws that create a financial incentive for or encourage cohabitation. (page 31)

Our laws and our government’s regulations should recognize marriage as the union of one man and one woman and actively promote married family life as the basis of a stable and prosperous society. For that reason, as explained elsewhere in this platform, we do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the states. We oppose government discrimination against businesses or entities which decline to sell items or services to individuals for activities that go against their religious views about such activities. (Pps 31-32)

https://www.gop.com/the-2016-republican-party-platform/


I don't see any problem with this personally. Most Western cultures would concur, I believe.

The problem is confusing this "platform" with other forms of "intolerance".

I do not have to accept all forms of behavior and sexuality, do I? I do not have intolerance for this behavior, but if you start to push something as 'mainstream' that goes counter to my traditional lifestyle, am I not supposed to speak out? Even voice my dissent?

I have to accept this?

EDIT:
I appreciate you bluering because you perfectly embody what most of us are trying to make clear. You even tossed in an epithet! Perfect. "Getting screwed" is code for "losing privilege. "Taking care of business" and "talking frankly" are just code words for "reestablishing white dominance." It's not that you explicitly think that brown people are inferior, it's that you are uncomfortable with the idea of them being treated as equals. Some might say those are the same thing.

Ugghh..code-words, huh? I guess you have me all figured out.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 22, 2016 - 11:50am PT
The Dems obsess with trivial stuff?

Then why the hell did the REPUBLICANS put it in their platform?

They apparently don't think it's trivial.

Courtesy of Crimper, the Platform:

Our laws and our government’s regulations should recognize marriage as the union of one man and one woman and actively promote married family life as the basis of a stable and prosperous society. For that reason, as explained elsewhere in this platform, we do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the states. We oppose government discrimination against businesses or entities which decline to sell items or services to individuals for activities that go against their religious views about such activities. (Pps 31-32)

Let's time warp this 60 years back:

Our laws and our government’s regulations should recognize marriage as the union of one man and one woman of one race and actively promote married family life as the basis of a stable and prosperous society. For that reason, as explained elsewhere in this platform, we do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the states. We oppose government discrimination against businesses or entities which decline to sell items or services to individuals outside their race for activities that go against their religious views about such activities. (Pps 31-32)

See the problem?

(I suspect not.)

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 22, 2016 - 11:54am PT
why do you folks engage bluering in a dialogue?
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jul 22, 2016 - 11:55am PT
There is a difference in what you personally believe, like, dislike, want to talk about, and what a political party that is seeking to hold power and create policy in this country states clearly is their intent. Big difference.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Jul 22, 2016 - 11:57am PT
The dems are obsessed with trivial stuff like keeping the Supreme Court of our Judicial system up and running according to the constitution, while the repubs have their eyes on the ball by keeping our bathrooms safe for uptight white men who's wives are at home worried about their man's job.

Our greatest human asset is that if we put our mind to it, we can believe anything.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
There is a difference in what you personally believe, like, dislike, want to talk about, and what a political party that is seeking to hold power and create policy in this country states clearly is their intent. Big difference.


I agree, Crimpie.

I don't think Repubs have plans to outlaw gay-marriage Federally, or crack down on sodomy laws. Or whatever.

It's more of a statement of personal values. I don't think Federal policy under this policy statement will change.

It was re-meat for evangelicals. Nothing more.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
This certainly helps explain a lot...

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/6/11/1537582/-The-most-thorough-profound-and-moving-defense-of-Hillary-Clinton-I-have-ever-seen
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
"Obsession with silly, trivial stuff."


You obviously don't know many LGBT's whose lives have been oppressed (or at least severely limited, in their ability to live their lives the way they want to, and the way the Constitution says that ALL Americans are supposed to be able to do. They certainly don't consider this to be silly or trivial.

Or maybe you just don't give a sh#t about the kind of oppression that doesn't affect you.

Edit:
"It was re-meat for evangelicals. "

Ummm....did you watch Trump's speech last night? He didn't give any red meat on this issue...matter of fact, he tried to cozy up to the LGBT crowd, and there was tepid applause, at best.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
Or maybe you just don't give a sh#t about the kind of oppression that doesn't affect you.

Honestly, that nails it pretty well. And not just with me.

The problem comes in how you define 'oppression'.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
Well, if that's the case, then stop talking about it, blue. You don't know anything about it, you don't care about it, so drop it.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
well, if I were a person who votes Republican then I would indeed be concerned

you just can't keep alienating entire sections of the American people and expect to win elections

yet Republicans keep doing that, and they keep losing Presidential elections

you can tick off the groups that oppose what Republicans "stand for"

women vote more than men and they vote more Democratic than Republican

Hispanics, American citizens of "south of border ancestry" overwhelming same thing

Black, Asians, American Indians, all vote strongly against Republicans

people with post high school, as in college educated, more likely to vote against Republicans

you just can't afford to keep adding to the list if you hope to compete in elections

and now the LBGT community has joined the list in not supporting Repubicans

there are only so many white, male, "less educated" people around to keep Republicans in business and that is a shame as I would like to see a strong two or three party system in America
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
Well, if that's the case, then stop talking about it, blue. You don't know anything about it, you don't care about it, so drop it.


I know a bit about it because I'm incessantly inundated with the pro-LGBT 'cause' that is so popular now.
How could I not not be force-fed this stuff if consuming any media. It's f*#king everywhere!
Nobody talks about jobs/economy and the general welfare of our Republic. Just the f*#king gays, Black Lives Matter, and trannies now.

Is it any wonder it gets tiring?

EDIT:

Norton says, predictably;
well, if I were a person who votes Republican then I would indeed be concerned

Oh, that's very good insight, Norton!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/07/22/donald-trumps-creepy-fascist-infomercial/


CLEVELAND — We have always been at war with Eurasia. Snowball the Pig is responsible for everything that is wrong on the farm. How fortunate we are to have Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is the miracle product that will fix everything that is wrong in your home. He is also your father figure (put your little hand in his), who will be your preacher, teacher (everything you had in mind). He’ll be your dream, your wish, your fantasy, your hope, your love, everything that you need. Truly, madly, deeply, he loves you.

He is the way, the truth and the life. None shall be saved except through him.

He will protect you. He will fix your aching bones and your bad hearing and when you walk home at night you will know that nothing can harm you, because Trump is there. You will get a good-paying job. The thing in the shadows that frightens you will melt away as if it were never real to begin with. (And perhaps it wasn’t.)

Praise Trump from whom all blessings flow. Believe him.

He will also build a wall. It will be as tall as you want it to be. If you want the moon (Newt Gingrich does!) he will throw a lasso around it and pull it down for you. He will solve all your problems.

Why should you believe that he will do this? Listen, you’re awful nosy, aren’t you? Isn’t the word of Donald Trump’s children enough for you? (I would say, “And the words of his wife, Melania,” but those turned out not to be her words.) They have spent the last four days praising him to the skies.

Say what you will about dictators, royalty, mafia dons, supervillains and Trumps, they have a well-defined aesthetic. You get an immense, Wonderful Wizard of Oz-scale picture of your head, some flags, and then you stand in front of it with your well-groomed family, and they say that if only people knew the real you, they would admit that you were great.

Thus, Thursday night kicked off with a long, rambling speech from someone who had once seen Donald Trump write a nice note to a young boy in the middle of a Mike Tyson fight. (This was the nicest story that anyone who was not literally related to Donald Trump could come up with.)


His daughter Ivanka introduced her father, saying that he had been extremely kind to and supportive of her. (If there is one thing we learned this week, it is that Donald Trump is very nice to his children. But hear me out: What if Donald Trump maybe treats his children differently than he does most people? Could that be it? In general, if the only people willing to recommend you for a position are literally members of your family, it’s a sign that something is wrong.)

And then Donald Trump began to do what he has meant to do this whole time: talk about Donald Trump.

If Barack Obama was supposed to be your new bicycle, then Donald Trump is your new miracle juicer. He looks better on TV than he actually is. He is mostly plastic and he probably won’t work when you get him home. But the commercial makes him sound like the solution to everything that ails you.

In this case, he went on for 76 (such a patriotic number!) minutes, advertising himself.

“I love you,” Donald Trump said.

“I am your voice,” Donald Trump said.

“Believe me,” Donald Trump said.

“We will never ever make bad deals,” Donald Trump said.

“Nobody knows the system better than me,” Donald Trump said, “which is why I alone can fix it.”

How? There is no how. All that has to happen for a thing to be so is for Donald Trump to say it. This is certainly how all his statistics work.

Clear your mind of questions.

See, Donald Trump is always right. If he says that Hillary is damaging our prestige in the world by leading from behind, then the problem is that Hillary is damaging our prestige in the world by leading from behind. If he says that America needs to stop upholding its obligations to NATO, then the problem is that NATO is taking advantage of us and we need to stop being had.

He will bring back law and order and end lawlessness, but also he will decrease regulations. We need more law and order, but also we need fewer laws and more freedom.

Whatever is wrong, Donald Trump will fix it, even if it contradicts the thing he just fixed. Believe him. The system is broken, and Donald Trump will fix it, by winning. He will make only good deals. This idea has never occurred to America before, to make only good deals. Donald Trump will try it, for once.

The truths of religion are not the same as the truths of daily life. Faith has to get you through the day with the promise that things will improve. It does not have to withstand strict logical scrutiny. It can be an article of faith that something is two contradictory things at once. There is a hidden logic to its incoherence. It coheres because it offers a single system for fixing everything that ails you. It answers all your woes. It fits all complaints. Just like Donald Trump. Everything he touches with his hands — which are the correct size — he cures, or at least turns to gold-colored brass.

Donald Trump is selling America a miracle juicer. The juicer is Donald Trump. It is orange and it will never let you down. If you order now, Donald Trump will send you another one free.


Donald Trump will make America great again. “Great” is a vague word. It means whatever you want it to mean. Donald Trump will make America that place you see when you close your eyes.

And the crowd cheered, “Yes you will!”

You love Donald Trump. He will be a dear, dear leader.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
I'm sending you an e-mail, Ding.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-the-candidate-of-the-apocalypse/2016/07/21/b8ae8fbc-4f7e-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html

As for law and order, the president has at most indirect influence over thousands of law enforcement agencies across the country. To the extent it can be taken seriously at all, Mr. Trump’s assertion that “safety will be restored” on the day of his inauguration implies a vast federalization of a traditional state and local function, contrary to long-standing law and custom — not to mention the small-government doctrine of the Republican Party that has so unwisely and hypocritically hitched its wagon to Mr. Trump’s star.
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
don't think Repubs have plans to outlaw gay-marriage Federally

Maybe you should actually read the party platform, that's exactly what they plan to do! From the GOP Platform:

"Our laws and our government’s regulations should recognize marriage as the union of one man and one woman and actively promote married family life as the basis of a stable and prosperous society. For that reason, as explained elsewhere in this platform, we do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the states."
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
That was excellent, Ken. :)
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
So, let me get this straight...he should have kissed the butt of a man that insulted him and his family for months, and gone AGAINST his principles, in the interest of "party unity", and at the expense of what he feels is right for the country...and that would NOT have been selfish? He feels the best way to attain a goal is to be true to his core convictions and stand on his principles, at the risk of political doom, and THAT is selfish?

No, what matters is what he said that he would do, and it was not to dis Trump on national TV, in an opportunity given to him by Trump.

It means his word is worth nothing, and that he throws integrity out the window and damages his party, when he feels like it. A fifth columnist, like the non-American-born that he is.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 22, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
I can't wait for the Dem convention...

"the party of unity". Yay!!! The Dems just love everybody. Hillary is awesome!
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