Politapocalypse (U.S. Politics Megathread)

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 921 - 940 of total 2595 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 5, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
Interesting comment, Norton. Starting in 1968, when the California Republicans nominaated Max Rafferty rather than incumbent Thomas Kuchel, we have had a fatal attraction to that famous statement of Henry Clay: "I'd rather be right than President" (or in Rafferty's case, Senator . . .)

It would be a wonderful change to see centrist pragmatism replace our seeming insistence on ideological purity, without regard for electability.

John
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 5, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
They both have lost the far right to the Donald.


Not so sure about that, all the talk radio dudes, are all bent cause TRUMP is not on the right.

And he is not.

Norton

Social climber
Jan 5, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
TRUMP is not on the right.

And he is not.

very true, guyman

Trump himself said at the first debate that yes he was a Democrat for many years
and defended being one because most everyone in NY State was, so why not?

not very "right" or pure, or consistent is he?

through the years he has changed his positions on the issues

yet he remains, by far, the front runner

so why is that the Republican base disregards all that and wants him anyway?
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jan 5, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
And man, those crocodile tears. Give him an Oscar.

Wow. If the thought of the horror those kids faced and the immeasurable sorrow their families feel every day since then doesn't make your heart ache, you need a trip to see the wizard.

What a heartless ass.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 5, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
It doesn't matter if Trump is on the right. He knows how to push the buttons of the far right better than any tea party dude.

He can do it from the left seat.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 5, 2016 - 04:22pm PT
The President took executive action because the do-nothing Republican-controlled Congress would not. The GOP is essentially a legislative arm of the gun lobby.

It was not political "theater", it was smart politics having the victims of senseless gun violence in attendance. They are the ones leading the effort for sensible gun reform like the President offered today.

working with your opposition

I'll say this as politely as I can, but you can't be serious. ANY compromise with the President by a moderate Republican is immediately met by attack ads and a drafting of a tea party candidate to take out the "traitor" and replace him with a "patriot".

A day of reckoning is coming, in my view. Sensible Americans will reject the politics of fear, hate and paranoia offered by the nightmare GOP candidates. They are going down big.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 5, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
so why is that the Republican base disregards all that and wants him anyway?

Norton... I think that the "BASE" of the GOP wants something different than what the LEADERS wish for.

Just to add.... I don't know who this BASE is anyway. The people who demand a religious candidate, are they the base?

The people who demand a hard law n order type, are they the base?

The people who demand big pay outs to WS and other business types, the base?

who knows? and that is why this election is so much fun, IMHO.


and Obama and his gun laws..... he is only hurting law abiding citizens with his endless drivel. If I was a Democrat and I believed in hard ass, strict, gun control.... I would be mad as hell at this man who has basically done nothing to advance my cause. Its time for Democrats to wake up and smell the coffee.
Jorroh

climber
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
"so why is that the Republican base disregards all that and wants him anyway?"

Very good article explaining just that.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
The President took executive action because the do-nothing Republican-controlled Congress would not.

If the actions were his to take, why wait six years?

And Obama has compromised with Republicans when he actually wants to get something done, rather than score political points. He's much more interested in the latter than the former, which is why he's on an insult fest. Sad to say, and again as Kris rightly points out, the Republicans just take his bait.

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
So I guess you're saying that Reps were willing to compromise on this issue?


guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
That is a good read, I think El Cap posted that a few days ago.

Frum is pretty smart person, IMHO.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
So I guess you're saying that Reps were willing to compromise on this issue?

What would you propose?

John
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
Why wait six years?

Because he took your advice, John, and tried to work something out with the GOP.

As you noted, the things he has done are not particularly radical, but you will note that the GOP is coming out swinging as hard as they can.......and saying that if a Repug is elected, they will rescind the first day.

Note that they will use EXACTLY the same authority to rescind as enact, so they are NOT above using the same presidential power.

And Max Rafferty! The guy who moved from Ca to Misssissippi, and was said to have raised the IQ of BOTH states!

The news conference was pure political theatre, and, as Kris said, the regulations were relatively (at least to me) non-controversial. Again, if this is such world-shattering news, why wait six years? Do your job, enact the regulations the law allows, and actually try working with your opposition, rather than villifying them.
Jorroh

climber
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Really Trump has done one hugely positive thing, and that is expose the Republican Party as the fraud that it is.
Going forward, its hard to imagine that the gumby wing of the party, even as blinded as they are by hate, anger and resentment, will ever be so easy to dupe again.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
How so, Anders? Doesn't that make me the opposite of 666, at least in a sense?

Congrats on No. 1000, by the way.

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 5, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
I would propose that the possibility of the Reps compromising on the issue were, and still are, extremely remote.

To be fair it's not just the Rep part of congress.

We could ask for some help here.

Human Computation May Be Key to Solving World's Wicked Problems


Researchers from Cornell University and the Human Computation Institute want more humans to help out in accelerating research and finding solutions to life's most difficult problems, such as cancer, HIV, climate change and drought and gun control.

I'll leave the rest to my associate, Herr Braun.


HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
John posted
The hoopla over this mystefies me. If the President has this authority, why does no one criticize him for failing to use it for six years? If this is such a big deal, he should have exercised that authority, at the very latest, after the Gabby Giffords shooting. Instead, after each shooting that the press and administration played up, all he did was castigate those who opposed his views, then sit on his hands.

You're right. Obama is an idiot for trying to pass laws through a legislative body in a representative democracy.

As a more straightforward answer to your intentionally obtuse and specious question, the stuff he's doing is peanuts compared to what actually needs to get done and that stuff requires congressional action. People are overselling it and are just happy to see something change. The anti-Obama side is obviously overselling it too, claiming that this is the beginning of the end for "are freedoms."

What is actually exciting is that he is helping law the political groundwork for gun control to no longer be a losing issue. By encouraging people to have expectations for action, legislators can feel safer to incorporate a plank into their platform.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 5, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
Trump went birther on Ted Cruz Monday.

In an interview with MyFoxNY following Cruz’s big 2016 announcement Monday morning, Trump raised the issues surrounding the Canadian-born Cruz’s citizenship, suggesting it might be a hurdle in reaching the Republican nomination for president.

“Well he’s got, you know, a hurdle that nobody else seems to have at this moment,” Trump said by phone. “It’s a hurdle and somebody could certainly look at it very seriously.” Noting that Cruz was born in Canada, Trump said, “you’re supposed to be born in this country, so I just don’t know how the courts would rule on it. But it’s an additional hurdle that he has that no one else seems to have.”

In August 2013, Cruz released his birth certificate in an attempt to quell any rumblings about his eligibility to run for president. While he was born in Alberta, Canada, his mother was a U.S. citizen, which means he got automatic citizenship as well.

It was around that same time that Trump first expressed his skepticism over Cruz’s citizenship in an interview with ABC News’ Jonathan Karl. “If he was born in Canada, then perhaps not,” Trump said of Cruz’s eligibility. “That will be ironed out. I don’t know the circumstances. If he says he was born in Canada, that’s his thing.”

Next he will claim the birth certificate is fake.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jan 6, 2016 - 12:14am PT
My Prescription for 2016: Collapse Early and Often

By Dmitry Orlov

January 05, 2015 "Information Clearing House" - We are in the time of year when most sensible animals living in northerly climates are hibernating in burrows and hollow tree trunks, while the somewhat less sensible pundits make their predictions for the coming year. My prediction is always the same—things will go on more or less same as before, until something major breaks, while the probability of something major breaking goes up with each passing year. I have called this event “collapse,” and have predicted, year after year, that it will eventually happen. And so, instead of repeating this less than useful prediction, this year I will instead provide a prescription.

Not too many people, I expect, will want to follow my prescription; not too many of my family members, or friends, or acquaintances, or you who are reading this. And that's fine because, as I have learned over and over again, there is no strength in numbers. Quite the opposite: the probability of any given trick working is in inverse proportion to the number of times it is tried, or the number of people who try it. And so, if you are reading along and think “I can't possibly do this because of [insert lame excuse]!” then—good! Fine with me. Fewer people equals more oxygen.

And that applies to the few people who will actually bother to read this. Lots more people will not want to read this, because—what collapse? Gasoline prices are low, Obama has shut down most of the wars, the economy is strong enough for the Fed to have started hiking rates, and once Bernie Trump gets into the White House, everything else will be set right too. To the people who think that, someone like me, who predicted collapse a while back, was clearly wrong, and needs to be psychoanalyzed, not followed. Again, fine with me, so long and thanks for all the bullsh#t.

The reasons it's all bullshit are as follows.

• Gasoline prices are low because high oil prices crashed the economy. In turn, low oil prices are destroying the North American oil patch, which was only showing new signs of life thanks to fracking and tar sands, which are expensive to produce and only make sense when oil prices are high. Rest assured, prices will go back up, and then back down, until, in the end, oil comes to be regarded as useless toxic waste. A year ago I described exactly this scenario.

• The wars are over because all of them pretty much ended in defeat for the US. None of them achieved any of their stated objectives. Now, some of you will jump up and try to comment that the stated objectives were not the real objectives, which were to sow chaos and destruction for the sheer hell of it while enriching defense contractors. That's fine too, because such “real” objectives are consistent with imperial collapse: empire wants to steal a precious vase; empire smashes it instead; success! Moreover, whatever the objectives, they don't matter any more, because now they can't be achieved no matter what. The new Russian/Chinese/Indian/Syrian ordnance, such as the S-300/400/500 air and space defense systems, the Kalibr long-range supersonic cruise missile, along with various electronic warfare systems such as Khibiny, has rendered most US forces obsolete. You can say that defeat is victory but, as I explained two years ago, it isn't. Cancel Red Alert and set course for nearest dry dock.

• The Fed is pretending to hike rates to avoid the impression that it has lost control. This is not the only sort of pretense being attempted in the financial arena; there are plenty of others. The US economy isn't growing, and if you subtract out the effect of runaway debt (which will never be repaid no matter what scenario you consider as likely) then it's actually shrinking. More accurately, it can be said that it is sucking in whatever it can in order to avoid collapsing. It is a black hole, as I described half a year ago.

• As far as the “Bernie Trump will save us” theme, it is well understood by now that the US is no longer a democracy. (Maybe it was one once upon a time, maybe not; it doesn't matter.) Consider the matter settled. Anyone who thinks that it is still possible to effect positive change in the US by voting is a conspiracy theorist of the most miserable, deluded kind.


* * *

There are some general properties of collapses to keep in mind.

1. All things that must collapse eventually do. All empires collapse—no exceptions. All buildings collapse—unless they are demolished first. All Ponzi schemes—such as the current financial system, based on runaway debt—collapse when you least expect them to. Seeing as collapses aren't optional, it makes sense to get used to the idea of them happening, and to learn how make the best of them. Some people consider this and are filled with grief. As I pointed out before, collapse is the worst possible time to suffer a nervous breakdown, so please get your blubbering over with ahead of time.

2. Some collapses are actually good for you. Some really important things could be saved provided whatever less important thing that would cause them to collapse collapses first. For instance, if indistrial civilization were to collapse soonish, this would avoid ecosystem collapse, leaving whatever survivors would be left with breathable air and a survivable climate. And if the gigantic bubble in human population, which grew apace with the burning of fossil fuels, were to pop before turning the planet into a giant smoldering trash heap, then the few survivors would have a reasonable chance of making it.

3. Bigger collapses are nastier than smaller ones. For example, if you had lots of local banks and credit unions making loans to people who then couldn't repay them, then some large number of these banks and credit unions would collapse, insured depositors would be repaid, bad debts would be written off, and the entire system would eventually recover. But if you have a handful of gigantic banks and financial institutions holding most of the bad debts, and they fail all at once, then that brings down the entire system. And if you bail them out, then the entire system ends up on life support for the rest of its life, because nobody has any incentive to stop generating bad loans, since now everyone expects to be bailed out again and again.

4. Frequent collapses are better than infrequent ones. This is because unless things—be they populations, Ponzi schemes, economies, cities or empires—collapse on a regular basis, they tend to get too big. And when they get too big, their collapse (which is inevitable, see Point 1 above) becomes bigger, making them worse (see Point 3 above). Plus, frequent collapses of the nonfatal kind can be actually good for you (see Point 2).

For example:

• If the electric grid collapses now and again, then you will eventually learn that you need to get yourself a 12V system, a generator, some solar panels, a wind generator, and install LED lights.
• If water pressure goes down to zero periodically, then you will learn that you need to put in some cisterns, a filtration system, a demand pump, and collect water off the rooftop.
• If garbage collection stops for periods of time, then you will learn to incinerate and to compost, and will try to minimize the amount of nonbiodegradable trash you generate.
• If paid work disappears for periods of time, then you will learn that you need to keep a few months' worth of savings around to ride out these periods.
• If stores run out of food on a semi-regular basis, then you will learn that you need to grow your own food, put a chicken coop in the back yard and figure out how many lazy beds of potatoes you need.
• If banks periodically confiscate all your money (that's called a “bail-in,” and it's actually been made legal not too long ago), then you will learn to keep an absolute minimum of money in the banks, and figure out other, more reliable forms in which to store your savings.
• If you were to periodically find yourself cut off from the medical system, then you would find out ways of staying healthy and of treating yourself.
• If you periodically found it impossible to buy gasoline, you would learn that you can't rely on your car, and would instead bicycle, or walk, or take public transportation.
• If your country's government periodically turned fascist and started detaining, torturing and killing people indiscriminately, then you'd learn that you need to get yourself a second passport, and practice getting out of the country in a hurry.

These are all examples of small, frequent collapses that are good for you.

But that's not what everyone seems to be aiming for, now, is it? What everyone seems to be aiming for is preventing any and all of these small, frequent, nonfatal collapses. However, such efforts are in direct contradiction with Point 1: “All things that must collapse eventually do.” Instead of preventing collapse, such tactics guarantee a single, huge, catastrophic collapse that can very well turn out to be fatal for huge masses of people. But that's OK: see Point 2: if “the gigantic bubble in human population... pops before turning the planet into a giant smoldering trash heap, then the few survivors will have a reasonable chance of making it.”

And so, what if you aspire to being one of these few survivors who might stand a reasonable chance of making it? My prescription is simple: Collapse Early and Often.

Dmitry Orlov is a Russian-American engineer and a writer on subjects related to "potential economic, ecological and political decline and collapse in the United States," something he has called “permanent crisis”. http://cluborlov.blogspot.com
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 6, 2016 - 12:19am PT
Jeb Bush apologizes for saying he won an NRA award that doesn’t exist
The former Florida governor repeatedly suggested he was named the group’s Statesman of the Year, but he instead received a rifle for being a keynote speaker at a convention.



Uh-oh!
Messages 921 - 940 of total 2595 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta