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ECF
Big Wall climber
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Apr 26, 2015 - 03:54am PT
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It's bad man, really bad.
All this used to be under water.
These damn 64million year drought cycles...
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Flip Flop
climber
salad bowl, california
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Apr 26, 2015 - 08:18am PT
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Do you know what's awesome about LA?
Me neither.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Apr 26, 2015 - 08:26am PT
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Food.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Apr 26, 2015 - 10:28am PT
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about that Vimeo no snow video posted above:
:18 Thunder Pk and Telescope Pk in the background
:33 the east face of Harwood (skiable in a big year)
:35 looking down toward Stockton Flats
the rest of it: good filming but counting on suspension of logic
in the use of downhill skiing (a high impact sport) to cause erosion on fragile scree vegetation to somehow get attention for environmental concerns.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 26, 2015 - 11:01am PT
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Well there you go. Thanks for pointing out our problem. Good to know that's behind us.
I hope I didn't come across as too snarky. But it just seems to be one of those situations where everybody knows exactly what the problem is, but at the same time says "Well, since I'm not going to die of thirst today, I'll worry about it tomorrow."
I don't know what the solution is.
See if you can fix Hong Kong too, while you are there. Thanks so much!
I tried, man. I really tried. But four days without access to good beer was too much for me, and I had to leave. If only I could have stayed another couple of days, I'm sure I could have solved all of HK's problems.
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ruppell
climber
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Apr 26, 2015 - 11:37am PT
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I hope I didn't come across as too snarky. But it just seems to be one of those situations where everybody knows exactly what the problem is
Kinda like this?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Apr 26, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
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ruppell you nailed it^^^^.
And the California walnut has one significant use as a'rootstock'.
You may still find some growing wild in the hills around L.A.
Farmers do the Dr Frankenstein thing with them. They graft English Walnut
stems onto California Walnut roots to make a hybrid creature that produces
the walnuts you've eaten.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 26, 2015 - 10:11pm PT
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"Chaz--I've heard the california avocado industry is about to take a major hit. Thoughts?"
Depends on where you are in California, I guess.
The water used to irrigate the groves in Redlands - Cherry Valley - Beaumont - Banning comes straight off of 11,502' Mt San Gorgonio. It's delivered via an old-timey system of flumes and pipes following the contours of the topography, all gravity powered.
( Avocados and citrus are a Redlands thing. Up the street, because it gets colder up in the altitude, they grow apples and cherries )
For at least the second or third straight year, there isn't a hell of a lot of snow up on San G, but changing weather patterns have kept San G from drying out.
The summer monsoon rainstorms that come up from the Gulf of California - the ones that have hit Phoenix forever - are making their way further west now, and absolutely soaking places that never used to see any summer rain at all. Hemet has been flooded multiple times over the last couple summers, when just a few years ago it was standard for Hemet to go from May to January without a single drop of rain. Last year here in Redlands, it rained way more in the summer than it did in the winter, when we never used to get one drop of rain in the summer either.
So for now, I'm OK. I'm sure I would have heard something by now, if we were running low on water here. From my house, I can see thousands of avocado trees that weren't here just a couple years ago. Some are replacing citrus. ( I can tell when a grove is transitioning. First, a fence goes up around an orange grove - nobody steals enough oranges to make a difference, so nobody bothers to fence in their oranges. Then they plant avocado trees among the orange trees. In a year or two, the orange trees end up as firewood, leaving a new avocado grove. ) But most of the new avocados are on once vacant hillsides or surrounding new mansions in the flats. Apparently, the thing to do in this neighborhood is to build one big house on ten acres, and plant a grove around it.
There's still enough citrus around here that the whole neighborhood smells like orange blossoms the entire month of march. The scent is heavy enough to make you sick, if you don't like it. Me, I love it. The entire town used to smell like oranges in '76 when I first showed up here.
Off-topic, but I think interesting, my neighbor Bob Knight is doing his best to keep citrus in Redlands. Huell Howser did an episode about Bob and his wife a few years ago.
https://blogs.chapman.edu/huell-howser-archives/2007/09/07/orange-conservancy-129-californias-green/
That's my neighborhood - and my neighbors. The gal named Aki is Bob's wife. Those field boxes she's flinging around weigh a good 50 pounds each. That small woman moves a ton of oranges - no exaggeration - in this video, without breaking a sweat! Bob's dog used to walk through my yard - digging holes under my fence in two places - to go visit my other neighbor Hans' dog, and swim in Hans' pool, before he got too old to roam and swim.
Down in San Diego County, where practically all the California avocados are grown, I hear they're having problems. I would imagine those without wells - who depend on someone else to deliver their water - are those who are having problems.
A couple years ago, I was at a shindig at the packing house in Bloomington, seated next to a couple from North County San Diego. They had cut their 60 avocado trees down to stumps, because of water concerns. That made me think, because I have almost three times that many trees, and I want to eventually triple what I have now.
San Diego County - while they get hit by the same monsoon storms the rest of us are benefiting from - they don't have an 11,000' mountain range near by to collect and store that water, and a 125-year-old system to deliver it like we do here. Their water comes from the Colorado River, and the Colorado drainage isn't exactly setting the irrigation world on fire lately.
Most avocados you see are grown in Mexico, because they have a ten-month growing season down there. Right now is the window in Mexico's season. The packing house put the word out, and last week I gave them every Hass avocado I had - about a ton, I figure.
Most of my avocado trees - like 75% - are Lamb Hass. They ripen later and are a hell of a lot heavier than regular Hass. They're like a pound apiece, but otherwise almost identical to Hass avocados. I have no idea where these avocados go once the packing house gets them. I never see 16oz avocados in the supermarket. They look too good to make into institutionalized guacamole, but who knows.
Ghost writes:
"So why are y'all still living there?"
Because winter here is like summer in Seattle - only it lasts a hell of a lot longer.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 26, 2015 - 10:16pm PT
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That's the most interesting thing I've read here in a long time, Chaz .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Apr 26, 2015 - 10:31pm PT
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for sure...
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 27, 2015 - 08:19am PT
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Thanks Chaz for that very thorough and thoughtful response. I learned a lot.
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couchmaster
climber
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Apr 30, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
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Jan said: "Regarding Werner's blob of warm water off the coast of California. I noticed a similar thermal hot spot down the east coast of Japan the summer before the big earthquake and tsunami. Mt. Fuji is overdue for another eruption, so I surmised that must be the reason. Then came the massive earthquake and tsunami and I realized it was tectonic friction. It would be interesting to note what plates or faults are in the region of California's warm blob. If only Juan de Fuca were still here. " In response Craig pulled this bullshit out of his ass: "The warm blob of water off the coast of California (and Japan, if such a warn blob existed) is not due to plate friction. If it were, the temperature of the crust over these bouldaries would be easily measurable and quakes easily predicted.
That is simply not the case.
Besides, the plate boundary along side of California is called the San Andreas transform fault and it is on land for a good portion of the state, finally heading out to sea in the San Francisco region.
The warm water is caused by weather and climate, not by plate tectonics.
Sorry to quash your pet theory.
DMT "
Blah blah blah....Haha. You don't know jack about it man LOL. "Sorry to squash your pet theory". Right - sure you are haha. You know that the dude who came up with the plate tectonics theory figured it out (ie, guessed at it) while on acid and then was reviled by the regular scientists as all but crazy? Haha, instant replay, much like your post shut her down.
So Jan, despite her instincts being right on the money backs off and says: "Thanks for the fault info guys. I know about the San Andreas fault (who doesn't?) but didn't know what lay under the ocean. As for the warm water down the east coast of Japan, it is still a mystery why there was no mention of it in English at least, the summer before the quake and tsunami. It was so obviously unusual to have water that far north that was warmer than the subtropical waters off Okinawa. "
BINGO JAN! You should be a scientist, your instincts, unlike some others, were spot on. BTW, in case it wasn't that obvious, Dingus don't know whats under there as well. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/04/a_volcano_may_be_erupting_off.html#incart_river
Of course as Dingus says, these underwater volcanism things might be unrelated to water temperature and plates.
Hey Dingus man, YOU don't know, but guess what? THEY really don't know either. The article says "MAY" be erupting. Keep an open mind next time will ya? It's all guess work. Snippit: "Three hundred miles off the Pacific Northwest coast, the seafloor has been rumbling.
Over the past five months, there were hundreds of small earthquakes on most days at Axial Seamount.
Then on April 24, there was a spike: nearly 8,000 earthquakes. The seafloor level dropped more than two meters. Temperatures rose....."
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couchmaster
climber
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You might re-read Jans post Dingus. You are reading things into it that are not there. In either case, try and keep an open mind. "Axial Seamount is an underwater mountain that juts up 3,000 feet (900 meters) from the ocean floor, and is part of a string of volcanoes that straddle the Juan de Fuca Ridge, a tectonic-plate boundary where the seafloor is spreading apart." You don't think lava can come out when plates move? Really? You think it's a coincidence that the cascade shield volcanoes are lined up N-S? They (scientists who study these issues fulltime, ya know, for a living) are working on understanding what's going on, but don't have it yet. There's a lot we don't know, feel free to admit it, and keep an open mind will ya:-)
""The goal is to understand the basic behavior of volcanoes, because we really don't understand how magma chambers work and how magma works its way up through the crust," Nooner told Live Science."
http://news.yahoo.com/wired-underwater-volcano-may-erupting-off-oregon-194611197.html
As far as that goes, these very underwater active volcanic issues may be what is contributing to the California drought. Maybe or maybe knott. I don't know, you don't know. Scientologists and climatologists don't know. It's about keeping an open mind.
Sample Scientologist picture, clueless on volcanism but knowledgeable on drug interactions on psychosis:
I hope that was some assistance to you. As Jan said: "If only Juan de Fuca were still here" (insert sad face)
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Couchmaster has it going on DMT. I saw some photos posted, and it looks like he climbed the Eagles Talon yesterday, A4 sketchy pinnacle out in the Oregon desert. Is it true Couch, and did you have some warm water pooling?
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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This past winter's precip was comparable to the 76-77 drought, but temperatures were much warmer.
Regarding ocean heating due to tectonic friction, a couple of things to consider. According to a well researched wikipedia article, the total geothermal heat flux from the earth's interior to the surface is 47 terawatts. A terawatt is 10^12 watts, so that sounds like a lot, but when you compare it to the solar energy flux of 173,000 terawatts, it's pretty clear that the energy source driving ocean temperatures is the sun, not geothermal heat.
Anyway, if the blob of warm water is from frictional heating of the fault plane at the focal point of an earthquake, you have to explain how the heat gets to the surface so fast from 8km depth (or whatever depth). Heat conduction through rock is pretty slow. You could probably think up some possible mechanisms, but you would have to show that your proposed mechanism somehow overwhelmed the well known solar-driven processes that govern ocean temperatures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_internal_heat_budget
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couchmaster
climber
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Oh yeah Studly, haha, maybe on the "warm water pooling" part LOL. Plaid called me up and said, "You've been out too long whining about your shoulder surgery, lets get out on some unclimbed rock and totally f*#kup that near healed shoulder". Hmm, maybe that's different than what was stated as he was mumbling something about an unclimbed face but that's what I heard on my end. That was the short version.
We get out there, and based on 40 some years climbing experience I made the mistake of thinking I could free up @ 25' and simply toss a bolt in, then give it over to my man to aid on up the rest. Within moments of near kicking steps and the ball bearing effect on my feet as this thing crumbled underneath me due to just body weight on it there should have been all kinds of warm "water" pooling:-) This must be why we climbers wear pants that soak up moisture haha. I stalled out early due to the "shrinkage" accompanying the "pooling" and drilled the hole: a 1/2" x 8" deep hole that took me the count of 5 seconds to get in. I counted it off. 5 seconds. The 1/2 x 7" monster stainless steel wedge anchor easily tapped in, but the hammer was probably not needed as I could have pushed it in by hand. Hand tightening the nut made me realize that it would pull out all the way if I simply kept twisting the nut or if I simply tugged on the ##@@X! thing. So I stopped. I had a vision of just following Adam up pitch 2 of Bewitched over in the Coethedrals a couple years back and blowing 3 points of an otherwise great 4 point stance and ripping my rotator cuff (AGAIN!) hanging there like a monkey on a single hand as I'd had both the penalty slack and the stretch of 150' of rope between us. So I was a tad nervous.
Thinking if I could get a piece to back up the bolt so it would rip out slower and dump me in the dirt softer when I fall off I spend probably 10 more min monkey f*#king with a offset X4 in a shallow pocket and it looks good on paper but if I put @ 10 lbs of weight on it it rips out. Ripped out 3 or 5 times and I finally gave up. Downclimbed to the ground without weighting the "bolt" and was thinking that a good combo for these kinds of routes would be both the polargard fabric to soak up the warm "water" pooling effect, AND wearing some kind of an extra absorbent adult incontinent product UNDERNEATH to keep the sh!t from dripping down my leg into my sock.
I think I heard some kind of Grrrr behind me and a tied in Plaidman zooms right up and, I'm not shitting at all here, whacks in the largest Tomahawk Theron makes right into the blank face as high as he can get it above the bolt: no crack, no nuttin just a blank section of vertical dirt and aids right on up on it. I looked at that first placement with amazement while cleaning and it stunned me enough that it took me a while to realize that I needed to get a photo of one of those placements. I got a shot of a Pecker higher up:
Some were pretty good, some I didn't need a hammer to get out. The "rock(s)" seem to go from soft crap down low, to firmer soft crap in the middle, to total soft crap up high. The picture was a placement up @ 80'. Don't bother with cams or nuts, there are no places anywhere for them. Don't ask me where the incipient seam went, but it didn't "seam" to bother Plaid as you can see. I was impressed by the lad. Lad, heck, we go hiking up and run into 2 horsemen sitting up on the rim. I'm chatting when Plaid comes up with his haul bag on. Horseman dude says: Hey, you got an old guy with ya". I laugh and say: "Old? He's almost 20 years younger than me and he just led that tower over there." I was left wondering why those towers are still standing.
Anyway, I have another appointment with my surgeon in 2 hours to talk about why my shoulder still hurts. I don't think I will mention the extracurricular activities of last Saturday with Plaidman or some of the other crap I've been getting into on my weekends:-) Interesting statistic. My drill battery has a button that tells you how charged up it is. We did 5 (total) 1/2 x 8" deep holes. Got home, still "fully charged". LOL.
Studly said: "Couchmaster has it going on DMT. I saw some photos posted, and it looks like he climbed the Eagles Talon yesterday, A4 sketchy pinnacle out in the Oregon desert. Is it true Couch, and did you have some warm water pooling?"
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couchmaster
climber
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OK: got a steroid shot into the shoulder joint last night from the surgeon. GTG for the next POS tower.
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Plaidman
Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
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Turkey Monster is next on the list.
Plaid
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SuperTopo on the Web
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