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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
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The Compressor Route did not exist when that photo was taken. Just Sayin'.
I paid close attention to Dickenson's and Largo's posts, slept on it, and considered the matter closed. But, like i said, it ain't for me to say, here from the comfort of my armchair.
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Branch
Trad climber
Alberta
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
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hey golsen.
i've never been down to yosemite (!!!!) but i was planning on maybe coming down this fall. then i did a quick google search for this 'el cap', and if i'm coming im bringing my bolt cutters!!!!
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Philo,
I think you got Kinobi and Kimbo mixed up back there.
Kinobi, though sharing a different viewpoint from you and I seems to be quite geniune.
Arne
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:59pm PT
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The fact that we were planning on leaving these bolts in anyways, meant it was too silly not to use them on the ascent.
This is a most troubling statement.
Were it not for this I would entirely come down on the side of "raising the bar".
This statement has the whiff of contradiction.
But Largo is right. Things get done, and there's not much law out on the frontier.
Armchair mountaineers will never run out of things to debate.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Jan 26, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
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From Kimbo:
the only thing ruining that photo are those massive shiny bolts.
thank god they are gone.
Wait! Now I'm confused. I thought you wanted more bolts.
Arne
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 26, 2012 - 04:04pm PT
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From Kimbo:
the only thing ruining that photo are those massive shiny bolts.
thank god they are gone.
Wait! Now I'm confused. I thought you wanted more bolts.
Arne
i'm sure black spider can help you, since he has nuance down pat.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Jan 26, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
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That's OK. I've enjoyed this very much but now I need to go do something.
Boys, it's a beautiful world!
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Jan 26, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
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The story is not over yet. Maestri can still stand proud and say, "Still, no one has climbed the SE ridge of Cerro Torre without the use of my bolts."
Never met the man, but I envision Maestri as Herzog played the protagonist in Scream of Stone: stubborn, proud, driven and unyielding, with a lot of character yet crippled by bitterness.
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mr-p
Trad climber
Invisible City
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Jan 26, 2012 - 04:47pm PT
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Since the word "ethics" has been so widely misused in defense of the so called "historical route", it will be good to remember that "leave no trace" has been a core value taught for generations to mountaineers
and outdoor enthusiasts everywhere. If you disagree on this basic premise of mutual respect and conduct, then go ahead and bolt your way to the moon, so you can claim it in your resume. Go and add some garbage to Everest while you're at it.
On another note, I hope Jason and Hayden give the North Face of North Twin another go, and this time succeed.
That is the way to be on the good side of history. You are surely inspiring a lot of people.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jan 26, 2012 - 05:19pm PT
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50's and beautiful. It would be really cool to climb if it wasn't for work.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jan 26, 2012 - 05:21pm PT
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God, the thread is distracting me from my life . . .
Kimbo wrote: "Ironically, the thing K&K's bolt removal might do is put the idea in other kid's heads that it's ok to do whatever f*#k one wants, regardless of opinion (but such is youth! man i sound old sometimes!).
I'm under the impression that we never have to put that opinion into other kid's heads, that being young and brave and self-absorbed (I certainly was), we quite naturally do things our own way. As Ron said, out on the frontier there ain't much law and things get DONE. It's the young generation's mandate to make over the world in their own likeness. It's the old fats job to say they have no right and to honor our past. But it isn't their past. The vanguard has no past. And they are out on the lawless frontier where they can't hear any voice but their own. Good or bad need not apply.
That's how it works. We just have to lump it, and like it because they have all the power now.
JL
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 26, 2012 - 05:55pm PT
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Lovegasoline - please stop humping JL's leg. Many here would like him to stick around.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
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And read a little history of Cerro Torre. It's not a sport climb it was only bolted like one.
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David_43222
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 06:10pm PT
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I would do that in my local are if and only if thats the majority view.
Not in my dreams i would do that in an other climbing crag or country.
They had absolut no respect of the majority and absolute no respect of the fact that cerro torre is a patagonian mountain and not placed in north america.
They saw the things with their own we rule the world eyes. Thanks G'od that there is an other fantastic america which is still alive.
Best wishes from Europe
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 06:16pm PT
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DaftRat your attention deficit disorder is showing. You act so pissy when you don't get enough attention.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Jan 26, 2012 - 06:18pm PT
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"Maestri's actions were a complete atrocity. His use of bolts and heavy machinery was outrageous, even for the time. The Southeast Ridge was attainable by fair means in the '70s, he stole that climb from the future."
Jason Kruk, Squamish, BC
Hayden Kennedy, Carbondale, Colorado
TY
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Gene
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 06:24pm PT
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I would do that in my local are if and only if thats the majority view.
Understood and I respect your concern for community and consensus. Others differ.
In the long run there is no more exhilarating experience than to determine one's position, state it bravely and then act boldly.
In the current case, K&K acted boldly and then stated it bravely.
g
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 26, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
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the only true vanguard action at this point would be to bolt an aid line from the bottom to the top of Cerro Torre.
talk about avant-garde, revolutionary AND vanguard, all at once.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
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And there goes the neighborhood.
Certified Torre?
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!