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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 29, 2011 - 06:37pm PT
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NO "Class Warfare" here"
"Some people call you the elites. I call you my base."
George W Bush speaking at a fundraiser
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 29, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
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Lois,
It is happening more and more frequently - long posts and numerous posts directly in a very emotional tone specifically at me. It is not a situation wherein he posts one comment which is "heated" and then waits for me to return to reply to it. I am noticing a pattern of escalating vitriol and it is directed at me. I do not feel this pattern is healthy for any of the parties involved and accordingly I have asked Ken not to specifically engage me in these discussions. I do not feel that request is unreasonable
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2011 - 06:51pm PT
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Funny GOP call Obama is called such a tax raiser
What taxes did he raise. he's only barely tried to let a temporary tax cut expire but didn't even do that. All GOP presidents have raised taxes but still can't find any Obama tax and yet he is a tax raiser.
He clearly should at least get rid of the Bush tax cut but everyone wants to demonize even that
Peace
karl
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 29, 2011 - 07:07pm PT
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What taxes did he raise. he's only barely tried to let a temporary tax cut expire but didn't even do that. All GOP presidents have raised taxes but still can't find any Obama tax and yet he is a tax raiser.
I think the problem we have with budgets is bickering over who will take the hits. What needs to be done is across the board - everyone pays 5% higher taxes and every department in Government downsizes 15%. Then nobody can complain about class warfare, being singled out, etc.
This is a start anyway...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 29, 2011 - 07:10pm PT
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Excuse me?
Everyone making less than $106,000 a year is paying LESS federally collected tax
on the same earnings than they did under Bush.
In ADDITION to extending the Bush tax cuts, Obama CUT another 2% in YOUR taxes.
BUT THEN:
"Facts are irrelevant"
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Gary
climber
Desolation Row, Calif.
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Sep 29, 2011 - 07:16pm PT
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TGT: Say it ain't so Joe!
Vice President Joe Biden told Florida radio station WLRN on Thursday that voters should hold President Barack Obama, not former President George W. Bush, accountable for the poor state of America’s economy.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/29/biden-voters-should-blame-obama-not-bush-for-economy/#ixzz1ZNMdjKIK
This is what TGT son confused, fom the link:
Polls indicating that more Americans blame Bush for the economy than Obama are not relevant, Biden said.
“Even though fifty-some percent of the American people think that the economy tanked because of the last administration, that’s not relevant,” Biden stressed. “What’s relevant is we’re in charge. And right now we are the ones in charge and it’s gotten better, but it hasn’t gotten good enough.”
See that? Something unfathomable to a GOP voter! A politician accepting responsibility!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 29, 2011 - 07:28pm PT
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Nope, not wrong about anything.
I said "federally collected", knowing that YOU would stupidly interpret that as Federal Income Tax.
You just keep falling in my traps, Jeff, so predictable.
Ok, and Jeffy, "about to blow up" is very different from 2027 full solvency, you dumb fuk
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 29, 2011 - 07:32pm PT
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Businesses have cited as their number 1 concern, for years now, "lack of demand". Not "uncertainty", not "overregulation", not "lack of access to capital for expansion". DEMAND.
When similarly polled on what would compel them to add workers..."more demand".
Yet, the simplistic "thinkers" (it's really stretching the word with this bunch, more like regurgitators) on the right such as Crackhead, would have us reducing demand (increase private savings, decrease public spending), and somehow the magic Austrian econ fairy (call him St. Von Mises) will intercede and make these businesses add workers in the face of decreased demand. How? Who the f*#k knows, it just will...you know, because Ron Paul and the 12 Austrian Apostles say so..or something.
The same bunch were lecturing us about "bond vigilantes" and how inflation and interest rates would skyrocket any day now due to stimulus spending and deficits....meanwhile, in the real world, rates are hitting historic lows and inflation is coming in WAY below the FED target.
Why on earth would people be inclined to listen to a group that is completely wrong. They take a small truth, fail to address specific circumstances and how those circumstances affect the small nugget of truth and cling to it like a lifeboat in shipwreck.
BOND VIGILANTES! HYPERINFLATION! ANY DAY NOW!
It's like they're firing on 4 synapses or something, just can't handle multiple concepts or complex interactions in their little minds.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 29, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
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“What’s relevant is we’re in charge. And right now we are the ones in charge and it’s gotten better
On what planet?
Planet Joe?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 29, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
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TGT wrote: On what planet?
Planet Joe?
What planet does your son have an IQ of 190???
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 29, 2011 - 08:04pm PT
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Businesses have cited as their number 1 concern, for years now, "lack of demand". Not "uncertainty", not "overregulation", not "lack of access to capital for expansion". DEMAND.
BOND VIGILANTES! HYPERINFLATION! ANY DAY NOW!
It's like they're firing on 4 synapses or something, just can't handle multiple concepts or complex interactions in their little minds.
Keynesian bullshit as usual from ElCap. I thought the last few years would finally show everyone what a farce Keynesianism is, but I guess some people still think Elvis lives, so there you go.
There is no lack of DEMAND, there is a lack of wealth! Go ask a homeless person if he wants a bed to sleep in. Is he going to tell you "I used to want those things, but since 2008 I don't any more." The demand side argument is so pathetic it should not even need to be debunked. How on Earth is printing money and spreading it around going to increase DEMAND? It will increase inflation, that is it. Where is the demand that the two stimulus distributions created? There is a difference between money and capital. Printing money and spreading it around just misallocates capital. Remember, everything produced will always be bought at some price, but you can't buy something that is not produced - we need savings and production - not phony money and consumption. This is such simple economics only an economics professor could not understand it.
This magical Keynesian dream world has never existed, and it doesn't even work mathematically. Even Paul Krugman admits that the theory doesn't work (although he mindlessly believes it works in practice). The 1970s completely debunked Keynesianism because it says that high unemployment and high inflation are not supposed to happen together. How soon we all forget...
As to the "Bond vigilantes", stop parroting Krugman and start thinking for yourself. Were you one of those winners who said Real Estate prices would never go down in 2006? Greece is now paying 100% on one year bonds. It hasn't happened here yet but that is because Bernanke has engineered a bond market bubble, just like the Real Estate bubble. It WILL unwind, bubbles always do. Sometimes they take a lot longer than anyone thinks to do this. I thought the Real Estate market would crash in 2005, but they kept coming up with new exotic loans and lowering lending standards to bring more people on board.
Do you work in the Bond markets? I do, and from where I am standing, WE ARE IN A BUBBLE!
The idea that because rates are low now we should borrow up to our eyeballs is just as intellectually bankrupt as the idea that one should buy an overpriced house because there is a low "teaser" rate. We have a $15 Trillion dollar debt and we are spending $300 Billion a year servicing that debt at 2-3%. Remember, Interest rates went to 20% in 1980. Do the math.
"Interest rates will never rise" = "Home prices will never fall"
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 29, 2011 - 08:22pm PT
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Yet, the simplistic "thinkers" (it's really stretching the word with this bunch, more like regurgitators) on the right such as Crackhead, would have us reducing demand (increase private savings, decrease public spending), and somehow the magic Austrian econ fairy (call him St. Von Mises) will intercede and make these businesses add workers in the face of decreased demand. How? Who the f*#k knows, it just will...you know, because Ron Paul and the 12 Austrian Apostles say so..or something.
ElCap,
Here is a homework assignment. Justify the policy of more public borrowing/spending to juice the economy in one paragraph as it applies to the following graph:
...KEYNESIAN CRICKETS...
I have never heard a single Keynesian respond to this graph. They refuse to even look at it because it flies in the face of EVERYTHING they believe.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 29, 2011 - 08:38pm PT
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Yes indeed.
Government should NOT be involved in monetary policy.
THAT should be decided by the "free market".
Bubbles always correct to the mean, after economies are ruined, years later, like now.
We don't need no stinkin Federal Reserve lowering interest rates artificially.
Government should do NOTHING AT ALL to "help" businesses, unemployment, and the general economy.
HANDS OFF.
F*#king third grade ignorant horseshit
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 29, 2011 - 08:42pm PT
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Yet, the simplistic "thinkers" (it's really stretching the word with this bunch, more like regurgitators) on the right such as Crackhead, would have us reducing demand (increase private savings, decrease public spending)
I can't get over the lunacy of this logic: "Our economy is sh#t but if we could JUST get interest rates a little lower... if we could just encourage people to spend more on consumer goods and save less.. if we could just borrow and spend a little more... economic growth is just around the corner!!"
This reminds me of the "Twinkie diet". The first month you eat 20 Twinkies a day and gain 20 pounds. You think, "I must not be eating enough Twinkies".
F*#king second grade ignorant horseshit
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 29, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
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Government should NOT be involved in monetary policy.
THAT should be decided by the "free market".
Bubbles always correct to the mean, after economies are ruined, years later, like now.
The real estate bubble would have corrected itself MUCH sooner, and with MUCH less pain if interest rates were allowed to rise. If you think this is untrue, I would love to hear your logic (or lack of it).
Markets are far too complicated, with far too many moving parts, to be run by a central planner, no matter how smart (and Bernanke is not that smart).
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 29, 2011 - 08:52pm PT
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You are in over your head.
Marsha Ann needs to get in here an kick your ass.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 29, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
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You are in over your head.
Marsha Ann needs to get in here an kick your ass.
No, you are over your head, otherwise your response would have been an answer to my question on interest rates.
Still waiting...
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