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prisco mazzi
Trad climber
Coniglio
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
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hello. iam mazzi captain prisco
i affix deferential
in my ofmine opinion. the hav maiden the biggest bigger bulllshit ofthe. story delmondo
is required
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
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"or maybe they did bring the berlin wall down. sheesh, how can i overlook this?"
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a metaphor?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
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enzolino
Probably & perhaps .... those words say.
You don't know and are projecting.
Give it up saying stupid stuff you don't know.
Make your points on facts and not a veiled slander attempt .....
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:06pm PT
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How long do you think will take for their sponsors to drop their support?
I feel very sympathetic for Garibotti ... maybe he had to host them ... poor guy ...
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
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"How long do you think will take for their sponsors to drop their support?"
That's not going to happen.
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murf02
climber
NYC
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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"As long as the hardware remained it was justification for the unreasonable use of bolts by others. We are part of the next generation, the young group of aspiring alpinists. This is a statement we felt other young alpinists needed to hear."
Somebody read the JL "Vanguard" post
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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enzolino is only too kind
from their report it is clear that they are morons (and liars), lots of supporters here, probably perhaps of the same kin?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
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Wow. Kinobi I am sorry you are so bitter. I do not take questions to nor give answers for Rolo. He is a gentleman and a scholar and he hears and speaks for himself. That you feel so hurt he hasn't answered your emails directly reflects more on you than him and on me not at all.
You can criticize and attack these three men all you need or want to and it wont change the new paradigm. Where once there was a disputed AO clip up now stand two better, more natural routes.
One of them a free climb up the very headwall from where bolts were removed
Maybe you should be admonishing David Lama.
Not like last time when International condemnation about 60 new bolts and plans to rap bolt reached the corporate ears of RedBlah.
No, this time you should condemn the Euro-Punk for freeing the boltless face thereby sealing it's doom. Going back up now to reinstall an artless bolt ladder when Lama has all ready freed it would be so droll.
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
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so what??
lynn hill freed the nose since longtime, nevertheless bolt ladders are still there and I suspect, whit bolt newer then the free climb...
double standards are good for lesser men
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
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@Largo
it is curious that you would be "sad" about what to many was an travesty by a lunatic.
i am saddened by a host of things:
-my time spent on this silly thread:)
-the way the blue and the grey mix today in the sky above me;
-the ticking of the clock on the wall behind me.
but seriously, what saddens me is not the removal of the route per se, but the way it came to be, that's all. if there had not been wide-spread opposition to its removal, then i wouldn't be troubled....
i too have contemplated the removal of bolts on existing routes, but did not do it based on the level of opposition i encountered. many supported removal, many did not, so in the end i couldn't come up with grandiose comparisons to the berlin wall and such to support a divisive act on my part.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
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Although the health and disability circumstances of my life made Cerro Torre totally out of the question -- or even a bivouac, being less than 6 hours from a really good hospital has always been a life-or-death crapshoot for me -- Cerro Torre has always been mythic in my mind. The very first climbing magazine I ever saw in my entire life was at Tom Compare's climbing shop A Striving After Wind, and it was the 1973 issue of Ascent, with the mind-bending photo of Cerro Torre on the cover. Oh Man, was I hooked.
When it's all said and done, I guess I'm glad that route got waxed, although I do not pretend to have earned the street cred to offer an opinion, as Theodore Roethke once expressed in his great poem "Elegy for Jane":
I, with no rights in this matter,
Neither father nor lover.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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In reply to Elcapinyoazz:
My nephew sh#t on the floor yesterday. We've decided to never clean it up, because you know that would be erasing history...or something. Don't worry ... if you ask the two snotty kids, they will be proud to remove it ... it's their mission ... they are part of the new generation ...
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Snowmassguy
Big Wall climber
Boulder
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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Despite all the bitching, this is one of the best all time threads. Really some fantastic opinions and historic accounts in this thread. Also, sooo much whiny drivel and complaining. I am bored right now so have chosen to discuss the stereotypes that have formred in my mind.
I have invested a significant amount of time reading this thread and it is pretty clear to me that if you live in Italy or other European country, you really like bolts....especially bolts on Torre headwall. These are like the best bolts in the world. Bolts next to cracks are rad especially if they were placed by the legendary Maestri with a giant compressor.These are historic bolts that belong to the European Union and should have been left on the mountain until they totally degraded. This climb is so darn hard, why make it harder? Dude, we like bolting stuff...this is who we are. Quick draws are cool. Also, the Americans are bad for chopping these bolts because they are American/ Canadian and this makes it even worse. Canada is close to the USA so that young punk is American in our minds. K&K were put up to this by George Bush or Rolo....not sure.. Our leader is better, he makes love to young girls not war. Oh year...we are going to now chop American routes and this will get you mad. Live in fear silly Americans, the Euros's are coming and we are bringing a compressor and are going to bolt the Sh!* out of the Nose...or are we going to chop it. We have not decided but we are going to threaten to do something and call you selfish Americans. We owned the Compressor route and now we are going to F' up something American. Secretly, we are scared to climb El Cap due to lack of protection. How many quick draws do we need for pro to climb the Nose?
If you are from North America, the chopping of these bolts is generally OK. Some disagree but most seem to feel the chop fest was OK. Some guys that disagree have routes with bolts that they do not want chopped so they say the chop is bad. Others have their reasons too ....right or wrong. Some Americans like bolts too. Sport climbing is bitchin' and I get to wear my lycra man tights. We like our sport climbs too but they are usually close to the ground and we usually like to bring our dogs with us. Overall, we North Americans do not like bolts next to perfectly protectable cracks. We like playing with cams of all sizes, nuts, stove legs etc. We like aid climbing too but find bolt ladders not fun unless bolts are missing bolts and we get to use some sort of rube goldberg type of cheater stick or hooks and duct tape. Duct tape rules! This is fun and we like this type of challenge. We are North American damn it ! We all like war, over consumption and law suits but not bolts unless we drill them by hand in which case they are generally acceptable. Think of all the carbon emissions emitted by that compressor. Thank God I drive a Prius and support locally grown produce.
 Snowmassguy is vegan, tree hugging, climber Boulderite that is not gay but supports gay marriage and like to ride his bike to save the environment.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
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bvb,
That is an amazing shot. TFPU!
Now back to the regularly scheduled slander fest!
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
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@ bvb's photo:
the only thing ruining that photo are those massive shiny bolts.
thank god they are gone.
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
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@Snowmassguy: that was an all-time great piss-take, bravo sir!
Summarized the majority of the thread quite nicely.
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Branch
Trad climber
Alberta
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
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bvb's picture is photoshopped.
Here is there original.
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Gabr1
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
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I found a video taken by a bystander of the reaction of Kruk (or Kennedy, i'm not sure), when confronted with the fact the majority of the climbers in El Chalten had voted to leave the bolts up:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Hard times in Patagonia...
:-)
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
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Branch, if that ones right you really ought to do one of El Cap....
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:44pm PT
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As long as the hardware remained it was justification for the unreasonable use of bolts by others. We are part of the next generation, the young group of aspiring alpinists. This is a statement we felt other young alpinists needed to hear.
it is rather unanimously agreed upon that the style of maestri's ascent will not be tolerated today.
ironically, the thing K&K's bolt removal might do is put the idea in other kid's heads that it's ok to do whatever f*#k one wants, regardless of opinion (but such is youth! man i sound old sometimes!).
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