Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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BASE104

Social climber

An Oil Field

Oct 24, 2013 - 03:29pm PT

We have a lot of paleo evidence. It is just a matter of culling it all in and seeing if there is a correlation between CO2 levels and sea level rise and fall in the past.

As stated above, current geological theory blames most of this on orbital forcing. This is fairly new, though. Ten or 15 years old.

We do know that the Cretaceous event was CO2 forced, though. We are pretty certain, anyway. CO2 levels were through the roof, and dinosaurs lived in the arctic.

Brandon-

climber

The Granite State.

Oct 24, 2013 - 03:32pm PT

[Message removed because I'm not a jerk]

raymond phule

climber

Oct 24, 2013 - 03:41pm PT

Amazed that some think CYCLES arent part of this world.

I am more amazed that someone think that "some think that CYCLES aren't part of this world.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 24, 2013 - 03:50pm PT

Here's your fantasy, Ron. It's false and you just flat made it up, but you read nothing so you don't even know when you're doing that.

Amazed that some think CYCLES arent part of this world.
...
But somehow AGW types think this is disturbing news.

So far as I know, no scientist anywhere ever claimed that "cycles aren't part of this world."
The existence of cycles is not news to anyone except maybe the "AGW types" cartoon dancing in your head.
No scientist in real life finds the concept of cycles disturbing.

Base just gave some examples, did it cross your mind that here's an "AGW type" whose expertise includes cycles?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:12pm PT

Relevant to recent discussions, this just out in the Journal of Geophysical Research (emphasis added):

Unprecedented recent summer warmth in Arctic Canada

Arctic air temperatures have increased in recent decades, along with documented reductions in sea ice, glacier size, and snowcover. However, the extent to which recent Arctic warming has been anomalous with respect to long-term natural climate variability remains uncertain. Here we use 145 radiocarbon dates on rooted tundra plants revealed by receding cold-based ice caps in the Eastern Canadian Arctic to show that 5000 years of regional summertime cooling has been reversed, with average summer temperatures of the last ~100 years now higher than during any century in more than 44,000 years, including peak warmth of the early Holocene when high latitude summer insolation was 9% greater than present. Reconstructed changes in snow line elevation suggest that summers cooled ~2.7 °C over the past 5000 years, approximately twice the response predicted by CMIP5 climate models. Our results indicate that anthropogenic increases in greenhouse gases have led to unprecedented regional warmth.

raymond phule

climber

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:14pm PT

Warming = most of the warming

Got it.

Nice display of critical thinking.

You really try to misrepresent a lot of what I write.

I would say that:
cause of global warming =cause of most of the global warming
in most discussion. The default understanding usually implies a most or main (cause).

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:33pm PT

Chiloe, why do they only go back 44,000 yrs for that study.

By itself, that's a reasonable question, and of course it is answered in the paper.

The ancient rooted plants emerging beneath the four ice caps must have been continuously ice-covered for at least 44 ka. However, because the oldest dates are near the limit of the radiocarbon age scale, substantially older ages are possible. Based on temperature reconstructions for ice cores retrieved from the nearby Greenland Ice Sheet [Members, 2004], the youngest time interval during which summer temperatures were plausibly as warm as present prior to 44 ka is ~120 ka, at, or near the end of the Last Interglaciation. We suggest this is the most likely age of these samples. Regardless of the absolute age uncertainties, it remains clear that these four ice caps did not melt behind our collection sites at any time during the Holocene, but did do so recently, indicating that summer warmth of recent decades exceeded that of any interval of comparable length in >44 ka.

But Ron doesn't wait for a real answer, his politics supply a made-up one and he's off into fantasyland.

A little trick to enhance that position perhaps?

nature

climber

Boulder, CO

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:36pm PT

the limits of radio carbon dating only exist to enhance the AGW position. So Rong is right.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:37pm PT

Still in fantasyland, Ron, too deep to find your way out.

Plainly you can't read, but if you could you would grasp that the "uncertainty" mentioned is whether the oldest plants are 44,000 or 120,000 years old. They chose 44,000 as the lower bound so their statements would be most conservative: unprecedented in at least 44,000 years. Exactly opposite to Ron's bizarro fantasy about their motives.

Brandon-

climber

The Granite State.

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:55pm PT

accuracy to me is everything.

And Reily, that image isn't helping. Fight the good fight. Facts, not sh#t-slinging, K?

raymond phule

climber

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:56pm PT

It is at least clear that Ron knows absolutely nothing about science in general and climate science in particular.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Oct 24, 2013 - 05:07pm PT

Well if we are to base our futures on these studies, accuracy to me is everything.

Another fantasy, Ron, accuracy to you is nothing. I just pointed out that you (1) made up claims about non-belief in cycles, (2) made up claims about why Miller et al. said 44,000 years, (3) made up what they meant by "uncertainty", and (4) couldn't read that what they said about it was opposite to your made-up accusation. Faced with a whole pile of fabrications you made in just a few minutes you simply change the subject.

So no, your own actions show that accuracy means nothing to you, and declaring otherwise is just one more fantasy.

Brandon-

climber

The Granite State.

Oct 24, 2013 - 05:21pm PT

I told you to never share that photo of us.

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Oct 24, 2013 - 05:32pm PT

Accuracy means nothing to Ron, really Larry? How about you running around representing yourself as a climate scientist? How about you making up regional graphs and representing them as typical or magnified from the global mean-if there is really such a measurable thing? For all we know, you are an unemployed sociologist turned salesmen who latched onto this global warming craze as a tool in hawking snow making machines to hapless ski resort operators in the northeast.

Base, have you found us any new gas and oil deposits lately? We are approaching the point in the axial tilt cycle that favors glaciation. The eccentricity of our current orbit about the sun makes the northern hemisphere summers several days longer than southern hemisphere summers-could this have anything to do with growing Antarctic ice?

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Oct 24, 2013 - 05:40pm PT

Coming from the likes of you Wyna, with a view of world skewed 180 degrees from reality, i'll take your delusional designation as a badge of honor. Thankyou.

Brandon-

climber

The Granite State.

Oct 24, 2013 - 05:41pm PT

For all we know, you are an unemployed sociologist turned salesmen who latched onto this global warming craze as a tool in hawking snow making machines to hapless ski resort operators in the northeast

Classy.

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~lch/

Chiloe, if you don't want this posted I'll remove it.

k-man

Gym climber

SCruz

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2013 - 05:57pm PT

RickS, you can sure sling the sh#t. But when asked to post up you own information, you slink away for a few hours in hopes nobody will notice just how clueless you really are.

If I recall, Chiloe took your bait head-on and answered all your questions, and debunked all of your baseless rants.

Now it's time for you to put up or shut up. Come on and show us that you have something, anything, on which you base your beliefs...

You guys and the graphical trickery are plain disgusting.