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CrackAddict

Trad climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 28, 2011 - 02:35am PT
CrackBaby, corporate tax rates have been steadily decreasing for 30 years

At 35%, we have the highest RATE in the world. But the number of tax loopholes has been increasing, so the effective rate has come down somewhat for connected entities. It is still not competitive enough though - unless you can hire really good tax attorneys. Small businesses get screwed.

'Trickle Down'? When's that gonna happen? Where's the JOBS?

I don't believe in trickle down because it implies market meddling. However under Reagan and his "trickle down" economics 8 Million jobs were added. Under Obama and his stimulus: We are still in negative territory!
apogee

climber
Sep 28, 2011 - 02:38am PT
Awwferchrissakes.
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 28, 2011 - 02:51am PT
retroactive choice


That is very funny, Crack. I like that concept. Good joke.


Joke?



OK that was a joke.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 28, 2011 - 02:56am PT
Of course not- but regulation should require a compelling reason for its existence, not simply a political contribution.

Right now we have regulated ourselves out of business.

One reason (of many) that the stimulus did not work is that there were no "shovel ready" jobs. This is because even building a bridge requires 10 years in court these days, and this adds no value to the bridge once it is done.


Just when I start to feel alone, along comes CrackAddict and Herman Cain...

Cain IS Able, and CrackAddict is right.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 28, 2011 - 03:37am PT
I wrote

Almost all government jobs are US jobs! They aren't outsourced and they circulate money through the economy. Chinese workers don't spend money locally here.

And even higher level government employees don't make nearly as much money as high level private sector employees, so the money goes further.

It's crazy to think you can help our job situation and economy by cutting middle class US jobs and giving the money to corporations thinking they will cut unemployment by creating jobs. We already see that they do not

to which Crack addict wrote

Karl, this is based on the fallacy that money circulating improves our standard of living. While it may increase our GDP, GDP is a flawed measure of standard of living and circulating money through the economy only exposes this flaw. If I give you $1,000 and you give it to someone else, who gives it back to me, we have increased GDP by $3000, but have we increased our standard of living? Not a bit. Remember, the Soviet Union had 100% employment - they just couldn't provide bread in their stores.

To improve our standard of living we need to produce things - and Government is not the vehicle for this. Everything we create is sold, at some price, and that increases our standard of living. But not everything we demand is created - I still don't own a Porsche, do you?

It is NOT based on that fallacy. It is based on the truth that a US government Job is a job in this country for citizens and when it is cut, it obviously increases unemployment, reduces tax revenue to the government, and this unemployed person downsized from government service may then require unemployment and government help. Isn't this obvious?

The statistics already clearly show that these alleged "job creators" don't create US jobs when they have more money from cut taxes and that the excess profits of corporations these days aren't translating into more US jobs. It's a myth talking point.

Compare that to the benefits of reducing corporate taxes where the corporation sends the money to China or India for goods or services?

What else does the GOP want to cut? Yeah, money to health care. Health Care is one of the few fields where the money goes to American citizens. We don't send people to China for treatment.

So this GOP Rhetoric about cutting deficits by slashing government spending on Health Care and Government jobs will only have the effect of increasing unemployment and thus increasing the demand for government help for the unemployed and reducing tax revenues further.

If the government gives me $1000 to empty trash in Yosemite, and I give that $1000 to my doc to fix my arm, and he spends that $1000 to buy art from a local hippie, that's money in the economy. Compare that to a corporation giving $1000 to a factory worker in China, who pays income tax to the Chinese government and spends almost no money on US stuff. (and Guess what, the max Chinese income tax rate is 45%

Peace

karl
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 28, 2011 - 11:07am PT
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
― Malcolm X


Seems LEB has been reading to many newspapers and watching to much Fox news.
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 28, 2011 - 11:28am PT
Is it even faintly realistic to presume that any president could reverse in 2 years the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression, especially with an opposition party dedicated to, literally, absolutely nothing else but trying to ensure he fails?

Sure, Reagan did just this.

Actually Obama had both houses of Congress on his side for the first 2 yeras if you will remember.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 28, 2011 - 11:31am PT
Drudge headline this morning

BHO 39% Cain 34%

Details to follow.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 28, 2011 - 11:38am PT
Crack wrote: Actually Obama had both houses of Congress on his side for the first 2 yeras if you will remember.


Yes and he pass more legislation in his first year than any modern president.

He also passed Health care reform which both republican and democrat presidents have tried to do for over a hundred years.

You are about as smart as Lois, Fat and Skip...you think just because you say something it is factual.


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 28, 2011 - 11:45am PT
Crack..have you been to the sh#t hole that is China???
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 28, 2011 - 12:23pm PT
LEB wrote: 2. Obama took an already bad situation and made it much worse.



How did he make worse and what did he make worse??

Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 28, 2011 - 12:33pm PT
LEB writes

1. Bush created a problem and started the ball rolling

2. Obama took an already bad situation and made it much worse.

Bush = Obama = not good (pick your poison)


Think of it in health terms. Bush smoked like a chimney for 8 years and the nation finally got extensive, lung cancer (or adult onset diabetes, hopefully you get the idea) Obama comes on and somehow can't get us back to prime health in 2 years. Just shows you don't understand the weight of the problem.

I mean come on. A LOT Of people bought houses for over twice their current value during those 8 Bush years or took out equity loans. Is there any Obama can really do to fix MILLIONS of people facing foreclosure and Millions more being underwater on their homes?

Crack addict says Reagan fixed a bad economy in two year but how? By slashing taxes and increasing spending at the same time. That's like saying "My dad fixed up our shabby home once by borrowing $200,000 and remodeling it! Yeah, he only made $35,000 a year and we still owe the money but the house looked better right after we spend the money!"

Duh

It's right there in Black and White that this whole practice of vastly increasing deficit spending started with Reagan.

Peace

karl
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 28, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
Lois wrote: Do you think we are better off than we were Jan 2009? Seems like we are continuing to spiral downhill.


And you continue to blame the wrong people.


Who is against worker rights, collective bargaining, extending unemployment benefits, affordable healthcare and getting Americans back to work?

Republicans!!!





Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 28, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
Why bother negotiating with the Arabs when they just lie to you?

Come on Fatty. Do we need to point out that while the Palestinians have peacefully sought out recognition from the UN, and during this time of high scrutiny, that Israel comes out and proposes expanding illegal settlement in East Jerusalem by 1100 homes? Even the US, along with virtually every other country had to public condemn that.

Why? Are they trying to provoke a violent backlash? What would the world say if the Palestinians tried to build on land the UN called Israeli or disputed?

Israel's government has ZERO interest in peace. The whole strategy is to stall while squeezing out more and more occupied territory through settlement and security fence. Anyone who studies the situation closely will recognize this although chumps who just read the bold print will be fooled into thinking if the Palestinians just stick with talking to the US and Israelis, they'll get some kind of reasonable deal. They know better.

Peace

Karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 28, 2011 - 12:58pm PT
Well, Karl, I would like to see a little progress not more sliding down in the wrong direction.


Maybe you can't see that the new GOP strategy is NO compromise on anything and, even when Obama had majorities in house and senate, the GOP would filibuster all significant legislation that didn't completely cave to their demands.

This is an unprecedented betrayal of the country. The Democrats didn't dream of doing it to Bush and Clinton and the GOP worked together. Obama was MORE than flexible about working with the GOP but their whole goal was to make Obama fail, not try to govern the country out of a tough place.

And what can you do when there are extreme deficits caused partly by unaffordable Bush tax cuts and the GOP won't allow you to let them expire?

and you say there's been NO progress? Huh? Perhaps you don't remember that we were on the verge of total meltdown collapse? at economic death's door? or that the stock market soared under Obama? No progress? Not dying was big progress. You just don't understand how bad it was

Peace

karl
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 28, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
Fat wrote: Bob,

All the things you wrote increase the debt and make the situation worse.



The evil one


No fat what made it worse and increase the debt was two unpaid wars, lowering tax rates during the biggest recession in modern time and during war time.

philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Sep 28, 2011 - 01:20pm PT
Bush/Cheney only failed because they did not extend the war in the ME.


The evil one








Brought to you by the same war mongering wonk who calls for the overthrow of all Muslim states for the benefit of HIS 51st state. But then oddly complains about NATO involvement in Libya.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 28, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
More emotional bullshit from LEB, nothing factual.

Thick as a brick.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 28, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
If you held yourself to the same work ethic and accomplishments (results) as you do Obama, you would never get off the ground climbing-wise

I do Lois. I broke my arm in June in a few pieces. Guess what? I'm climbing again but not hard and my arm is probably only 50% still. If I worked on the arm harder, guess what, I'd probably just re-injure it.

You think battleships turn on a dime but they don't. Even the GOP believes we couldn't just walk out of Iraq and Afghanistan in a month after Bush put us there. The belief that Obama could put us right back into the black after Bush spent 8 years putting us in the hole is childish, particularly disingenuous when your own party is committed to blocking him and with the filibuster and now house majority, has the power to do so

Shame! Obama has shown he would compromise with the GOP but they totally refuse

PEace

Karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 28, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
Of course Rox said it better

Obama has tried to build concensus, and every independant pundit has admitted that but Glenn Beck and Rush Dildo.



The Repugthugs have used the Fillibuster like it was a swiss army multitool, for EVERYTHING that has had the slightest chance of working for Obama OR the Nation.

Rethugs have offered NOTHING that might work, their opposition budget they offered didn't even have any NUMBERS. It was like a BIG title, and three pages of NOTHING.


LEB, you cannot be so ignorant as to suggest the Rethugs have done ANYTHING to actually help the problems we face, they have done NOTHING but scream NO! NO! NO! NO! to the best of hteir ability and at the top of their lungs. Even to the point of harming the US credit rating!

And how unlikely was THAT a few years ago? Say, just before Bush brought us into two WARS that he and his party did NOTHING to pay for?

THOSE guys that gave Halliburton no-bid contracts to supply gas at $300 a GALLON? THat built showers for troops that electrocuted them in the stalls? That supplied domestic drinking water that couldn't be drank by a cow? THEY are the ones that bought Cadallic Escalade SUVs for private contractors (hired Mercenaries) on cost-plus contracts, then set fire to them when they got a frigging FLAT TIRE?

The abuses of the Repugthugs are INCREDIBLE and ARE known (and MORE coming out every day) NOW, that there isn't an automatic top secret classification on the contracts...




You CANNOT support such backhearted, greedy abuses of political power, REALLY, can You? Don't say they didn't happen, I can swamp this place with links and copied text saying they DID occur.

Yeah, like Obama could wave his arms all by himself without senate support and fix this stuff? Quit thinking like a baby and see the reality. He never had a chance and the more the GOP is in Power, the less chance we all have. They have NO solution but slash as much government as possible and cut taxes as much as possible. The certain result, a Mexico style country where there is a small super elite and everyone else poor.

All the manufacturing and even tech support is going overseas and all we'll have here is bomb makers, software, and health care (which is broken and will stay that way) What a pathetic excuse for a top nation

Peace

Karl
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