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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 12:42am PT
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My left & right on her left & right would be just fine.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:17am PT
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Almost all government jobs are US jobs! They aren't outsourced and they circulate money through the economy.
Karl, this is based on the fallacy that money circulating improves our standard of living. While it may increase our GDP, GDP is a flawed measure of standard of living and circulating money through the economy only exposes this flaw. If I give you $1,000 and you give it to someone else, who gives it back to me, we have increased GDP by $3000, but have we increased our standard of living? Not a bit. Remember, the Soviet Union had 100% employment - they just couldn't provide bread in their stores.
To improve our standard of living we need to produce things - and Government is not the vehicle for this. Everything we create is sold, at some price, and that increases our standard of living. But not everything we demand is created - I still don't own a Porsche, do you?
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:30am PT
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Tell that to the Chinese. A centralized, from-the-top government based economic plan: Right now the Chinese have MUCH freer markets than we do. They have had 10% growth for the last 30 years as they have moved from the disaster of communism to a free market system. Of course these are one time gains, so eventually their economy will cool to a normal (2-3%) real growth rate. Also, they are due for their own economic problems: Their government has subsidized housing also and created a bubble far larger than ours. It will likely burst in the next couple years and will do a lot of damage to the Chinese banking system.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:36am PT
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"...communism to a free market system. "
You don't really believe that, do you?
If so, you probably believe the HPV vaccine causes mental retardation, too?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:43am PT
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Free markets don't work. To be civilized they require regulation. Granted it needs to be sound regulation, but it still requires regulation.
We freed up the markets and are now in a recession.
wild swings of markets. That is what a free market gives you.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:46am PT
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somebody is always going to hurt someone.
there is nothing we can do.
there will be a heratache of some sort, somewhere around the world.
stay out late, just in case.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:48am PT
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"...communism to a free market system. "
You don't really believe that, do you?
Why yes, China has moved away from centrally planned, collectively owned industries to privatized, less regulated capitalism. This does not mean they are a democracy, or that they have social freedom, just that there is much more economic freedom.
Please refer to any newspaper or economic journal, for example:
http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_39/b3648087.htm
Sorry, I thought most people knew this.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:49am PT
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Well, JE, I'm sure you may never see this, and it will be buried with Lois-ification, but here goes...
"You're right -- you missed that. Since you asked,"
You can get more (with [probably unwelcome] editorial comment:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ap-fact-checks-obama-are-the-wealthy-really-taxed-less-than-secretaries/
Ummm....well, that's an entirely unwelcome 'information' source, anyway. The Blaze? Glenn Beck's rag? Really, John?
Dude, that kind of 'source' is just plain insulting.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:50am PT
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You really are a Crack Addict, aren't you?
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Sep 28, 2011 - 01:54am PT
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you mean like rock climbing crak, or regular east palo alto crack?
you need an 8 ball?
meet me at the rave.
hwy 70, belden town.
some of you out there are a couple that dont sleep well in the same bed.
anyway you want it, anyway you grove it,
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:00am PT
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We freed up the markets and are now in a recession.
Wrong. We have never "freed up the markets". The number of laws regulating the economy has GROWN steadily over the last 20 years. There has never been a significant deregulation. Have some laws been repealed? Sure, such as the Glass-Steagal act, which would not have done one IOTA to help us in 2008 (Banks already had already moved their trading units overseas and the biggest problems were caused by institutions that were not banks at all, like Goldman Sachs and AIG. In fact had Goldman BEEN a bank it might have helped, which is why they were allowed to become a bank holding company in 2008).
Under Clinton, congress chose NOT to regulate derivatives, which probably exacerbated our problems in the recession, but that is not the same as deregulation.
Nearly all of our problems right now are due to Government meddling, not deregulation. Artificially depressed interest rates force investors to seek higher yield in risky asset classes and real estate / Mortgage backed bonds - investing easy money in something for reasons other than intrinsic value leads to bubbles.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:00am PT
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Try this source, John.
The PolitiFact Truth-O-Meter Says:
Obama: "A construction worker who’s making $50 or $60 grand a year shouldn’t be paying higher tax rates than the guy who’s making $50 million a year. And that’s how it’s working right now."
Barack Obama on Thursday, September 22nd, 2011 in a speech in Cincinnati, Ohio
(Excerpt)
Our ruling
Obama has made a sweeping statement that it’s common, even typical, for a $50,000-a-year construction worker to pay a higher tax rate than someone earning $50 million a year. The reality is that it’s hard to know for sure.
We found that a typical taxpayer with $50,000 in income pays 22 to 23 percent in income and payroll taxes, while the comparable rates for very, very wealthy taxpayers are in the 20 to 30 percent range. The data isn’t specific enough for us to be able to say if a majority of $50 million earners pay tax rates at the low or high end of that 20 to 30 percent range. We do think it’s safe to say that some of those very high earners pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than workers who earn $50,000, and some don’t. So, on balance, we rate the statement Half True.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/sep/27/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-construction-workers-pay-higher-/
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:03am PT
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So, CrackAddict, does the HPV vaccination cause mental retardation?
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:12am PT
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So, CrackAddict, does the HPV vaccination cause mental retardation?
No, I am afraid you will have to come up with another excuse.
BTW, I can't be pidgeonholed that easily. For example, I am pro choice. In fact I am starting to think retroactive choice would be a good thing. For some of the people on this board.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:13am PT
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Can you count to potato? Or did your mom get that dreaded vaccine?
Will you vote for Perry? Or Parry?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:16am PT
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do you believe in a totally free market?
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:16am PT
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Can you count to potato? Or did your mom get that dreaded vaccine?
Will you vote for Perry? Or Parry?
Keep trying. I still have yet to see something intelligent in your posts, or even relevant for that matter.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:19am PT
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do you believe in a totally free market?
Of course not- but regulation should require a compelling reason for its existence, not simply a political contribution.
Right now we have regulated ourselves out of business.
One reason (of many) that the stimulus did not work is that there were no "shovel ready" jobs. This is because even building a bridge requires 10 years in court these days, and this adds no value to the bridge once it is done.
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:21am PT
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Ha-Ha!
Yer killin' me, dude!
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apogee
climber
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Sep 28, 2011 - 02:26am PT
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"Right now we have regulated ourselves out of business. "
PUT...THE KOOL-AID....DOWN.....
CrackBaby, corporate tax rates have been steadily decreasing for 30 years- Shrub's irresponsible tax cuts have been in effect for nearly 10 years, and Obama has only extended them.
'Trickle Down'? When's that gonna happen? Where's the JOBS?
Sheesh...even Reagan would say you guys are on Crack. Hell, he raised taxes 11 times during his presidency.
I'm sure you didn't know that. Or don't want to know that. Or drink enough Kool-Aid so you won't ever know that.
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