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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
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What's the big picture?
You guys have been really fun to watch today. Pure comedy The Chief, you're a brilliant humorist. Thank you.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
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Begin here Larry- a compilation of data, methods, and historical accounts of the fluctuations of sea levels during the historic period. Though all changes compiled here are not attributable to glacial melt (some are from post glacial rebound and ongoing tectonics) a good many can be so accredited.
I think you mean "attributed." And you've confused glacial melt with sea ice area. And you don't understand either anomalies or trends. And you've changed topics because you couldn't back up your declarations about less ice area in the MWP etc. I don't know where to even start with this gish gallop. So let's go back to what I wrote earlier:
So, Kinnard (2011), Polyak (2010), Spielhagen (2011) and England (2008), each using different methods and data, don't agree with you. Nor do most others I've seen, so I'm curious -- who told you those sciency words? What's your source?
"You guys and the graphical trickery are plain disgusting."
Your turn now, draw us your own graph. One with no disgusting trickery.
A sea ice area graph, that's what you were being so obnoxious about. Without changing the subject, show us what you can do.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
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Rick,read the first comment of Currys opinion piece.
"I'm venturing to guess that something's missing from the end of this post"
They are called References.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
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Do I detect a bit of bias in your choice of sourcing Larry? How will you ever learn of the real world if you are constantly immersed in the soap opera of so called mainstream climate science.
Read the whole thing Wilbeer- it lists credits as it goes.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
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So Rick, you follow 'renegade science'?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
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Do I detect a bit of bias in your choice of sourcing Larry? How will you ever learn of the real world if you are constantly immersed in the soap opera of so called mainstream climate science.
Are you this supercilious in real life, or is that just an effort to hide that you made nonsense declarations using words you do not understand? Go ahead, cite your unbiased, non-science sources and draw your own non-cartoony non-disgusting sea ice area graph -- show us what you got, Rick.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Oct 23, 2013 - 08:38pm PT
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Good Question,Brandon.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
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Man, I haven't laughed so hard...
My point was made.
-- The Chief
I can't even begin to describe the wealth of comedy in that statement.
[To bad the joke is really on us.]
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 23, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
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Making a point to yourself doesn't really count.
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 24, 2013 - 01:58am PT
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Nice dodge, coward.
Why should anyone play your game when you refuse to answer our questions?
I have asked at least two times so far something similar to this and you haven't answered. It is relevant because your whole understanding of Cook et al. seems to rest of their equivalence (first even with a may put in the second sentence).
Is the meaning of the next two sentences the same.
"man have caused global warming"
"man have caused some of the global warming"
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 24, 2013 - 02:07am PT
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Have you figured out how the global sea ice anomaly can increase while the Antarctic sea ice extent is declining?
This also seem to happen all the time when you try to discuss anything. You write something, other people write something. You get an idea about what the discussion is about and believe that your view are the correct one and that everyone of course know what your view are. Instead of trying to explain your point you sit on a very low high horse and ask questions.
In this case it is a mess because some talk about the change of area and same talk about the change in anomaly which you seem to understand are not the same thing.
The data seems to suggest though that the area are very likely to decrease due to the rates involved. The anomaly data also seems to suggest that the anomaly has reached its peak.
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 24, 2013 - 02:09am PT
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Good one rick, backing up statements about sea ice area with a blog post about sea level. That makes sense...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Oct 24, 2013 - 08:09am PT
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Rick ,I read the whole piece,an excerpt from a previous document ,the latter with references.
The piece contends sea level rise is historically "normal".
It does not contend anything of sea ice area,and hints of land levels rising[plate tectonics?],REGIONALLY.
While these assumptions of land levels rising MAY have something to do with regional sea levels they do not address the large[25mm globally]levels added every decade.
Sea ice area and thermal expansion that have happened since the beginning of the industrial revolution are not mentioned,just uncertainties of past levels are.
What is this about?
All I hear is yammering on from the denieosphere about how much CC research,adaptation and mitigation cost us ,US taxpayers,billions of dollars.
I put up NASA'S budget,in it are clear definitions of how much we spend yearly on CC research.I could also put up the NOAA,EPA and grants awarded for such.
It is all in the General Accounting Office's website.
I have yet to see any of you put any proof of such on this table.
Secondly,I posted up the UK opinion piece.
You and yours truly believe that.
The Chef believes that individuals contribute more to ,ahem,denier think tanks ,than do the top 5 of big oil and the koch brothers.
They spend more on arguing the science than we do to provide it.
THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 24, 2013 - 10:03am PT
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Maybe your computer went crazy and went to its own chosen destination or maybe you were tired Ed, but for the life of me I can't find the sentences you talk of in that abstract.
Wilbeer, don't you mean the satellite measured sea level rise is 1.7 mm/year with the margin of error at 3-4mm? The point of that climate etc. peice is that not only is sea level rise all over the board, and of many different regional causations, but that you can infer ice melt caused rise in a lot of instances. Sorry, I haven't much checked into funding, all I know is that the Koch bros. are not paying me to argue with fellow idiots.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 24, 2013 - 10:35am PT
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Wilbeer- first let me correct myself, the margin of error in the satellite measurements are 3-4 cm not mm. Exponentially larger than the change they report measuring. You said-"from the guys that actually put the satellites up there". Did they actually put those into orbit Wilbeer or were some of the launches contracted out to Russia? Makes no difference in their measuring abilities, I know, but an interesting point none the less. How thick is 3.2 mm, is it as thick as a nickel, penny, dime, anyway at that rate how is it going to add up into the more hysterical mouthpeices, like Gore and Hansen's, predicted tsunami's? All just plain ridiculous Wilbeer.
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 24, 2013 - 10:46am PT
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Remember "I'll concede that "may" should not have been used in my definition"?
and that was the reason I also asked about the "SOME". A question that you have now managed to dodge at least 3 times.
About the anomaly data. Because it looks that that in the graph.
The problem with the total sea ice discussion are that I don't know what you are trying to say.
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 24, 2013 - 10:51am PT
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Maybe your computer went crazy and went to its own chosen destination or maybe you were tired Ed, but for the life of me I can't find the sentences you talk of in that abstract.
I believe that Ed read the article... you should try that yourself sometimes.
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 24, 2013 - 10:54am PT
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I usually ask questions when someone says something that fails the BS test. I'd rather have someone explain themselves, instead of just lambasting them...
It have worked pretty bad for you so far. I believe that it would work better if you understood the topic a little better.
Please, start the lambasting.
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