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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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me: "but what are the stinkin rules, help a new freak out for chrissakes?"
Johnboy:
Its legal to drill a hole in rock and place a bolt.
Thank You ! You, in one short sentance, gave us what we wanted to know.
Game Over.
I am a new climber, but I am 53, I hav3e total repect for the granite, I think John Muir was the best climber of all time, why?
Because he was a clean man. A very clean man, but with more normal ears than Ansel Adams.
What would Ansel and Muir think about those bolts?
Who carers, they are both dead, I think the problem with Yose Mite is that it is located directly in the center of the state, so we get messed up LA types trying to get it with Camp 4 types, not a good mix!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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At a Leave No Trace class I learn that that a majority of outdoor use in within 30-50 miles of major population center, front country users are way up and back-country users are way down.
Many factors for the this but the main one is that people want to recreate in the outdoors. Instead of a gloom & doom view of this I view trying to educate these users will in long term be beneficial to both user and the resources.
I met a lot of wonderful folks at sport climbing and trad-areas and realize that most of them are tying to squeeze out some quality time and adventure.
As to untapped rock...Colorado & Utah has many lifetimes of rock & new routes to be climbed by any method you prefer.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Doc Rock wrote
"I am a new climber, but I am 53, I hav3e total repect for the granite, I think John Muir was the best climber of all time, why?
Because he was a clean man. A very clean man, but with more normal ears than Ansel Adams.
What would Ansel and Muir think about those bolts? "
John Muir herded sheep in Tuolumne Meadows and also worked in a Yosemite Valley Sawmill. Bad ethics?
He also said "Come to the mountains and get their good tidings"
peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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And then the tide went back out to the sea .....
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Actually, I think we should make Yosemite into an Indian Reservation.
Instead of dry rocky bluffs in Arizona, lets give them the best we got.
Like the I Ching, if you love something, give it up.
Indians are the best climbers.
They probably did thiubngs on El Cappy that we don't even know about.
Did you know that white folks used to wrestle Grizzlies, trying to beat the Indians?
You lket the Griz get you in a bear hug, then you reach up full length and stab him with a knife in the throat.
Kit Carson stuff.
Now there's a stud. Used to let the ants eat the lice out of his unwashged bucksdkin vest, then he ate the ants!
I wanna suk that stud dry.
But he's dead.,
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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No, no, Bob, we have no rock to be climbed here in UT. And I certainly wouldn't be thinking of doing any rap bolting in Lone Peak Cirque. You all can keep that in Yos. :-)
Looks like we're going to hit 1000 tonite. Glad I've done my part and if anything I have more respect for almost everyone who has posted on this thread. Maybe all this yakking about has even made me inspired enough to trek out and try Growing Up.
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Mustang
climber
From the wild, not the ranch
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All of this great discussion has got me thinking a bit outside the cage.
Should the YDS be ratified to include a sub-rating that describes the manner in which the FA of a route was completed, ground up, (GU), or rap bolted, (RB)?
I’m not suggesting that this will appease anyone of varying opinion on the matter of style and ethic, but it will lend an opportunity to further classify the way in which a route was created. Hardmen will have their asterisk, others, the dreaded, ‘Scarlet Letter’.
The debate over style and ethic will forever continue and that is another positive thing that separates us from primates; I believe we’ll reach 1000 posts later tonight, and topics of such controversy will never be resolved in such format. That being said, style or ethic of a first ascentionists’ creation may be actually protected under the 1st amendment of the Constitution. Counsel, step in here if you would please.
It further may take a comparison from the heated discussion from time to time in the art world, of what constitutes art, and whether graphic displays of unimaginably offensive and controversial images to many, fall within the description of art to some.
‘Growing Up’, offensive to many in its’ creation due to the nature of the medium, or beautiful to others because it makes the ‘art’ accessible to the masses is the obvious crux of this discussion. If we are able to answer the question of, what determines that which is obscene to many, art to others? Then, we will have discovered our ever elusive answer;)….
On to 1200+
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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DR,
Yes, in many places there is essentially endless stone if you go out far enough. True that you and I both are both blessed to live in such places where that is possible. But I hail from the southern Midwest and East Coast where the resources are far more limited. So while the idea that the answer is to flee to the hills and abdicate everything close in is practical, if not palatable advice, even that option that's not necessarily available to all. Some of the most infamous bolt wars were the result of exactly these pressures playing out in the close quarter confines of the NE. But, I agree surfing ahead of a wave of diminished risk farther and farther afield is certainly the reality we're faced with.
And I'd probably spend more time afield if our close-in crag wasn't closed to climbing a good part of the year. I like to get in every day possible when it is open and monitoring the Peregrines during the period it is closed takes up another 20-30 days or so. If all I did was climb it wouldn't be a problem to get out farther afield, but like many I have a family to support and my time for climbing is limited. When I do get out I do try to go to places I can do FA's and / or get on classic lines I haven't climbed.
That part Karl gets right - we all each do what we can...
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Yes, I found some awesome slabs O granite, up near Calaveras Big Trees, along the North Stan, probably been climbed, but nobody there, I hate an audience, stresses me, howabout you?
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BLD
climber
excramento,CA
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Dr. Rock wrote-"Yes, I found some awesome slabs O granite, up near Calaveras Big Trees, along the North Stan, probably been climbed, but nobody there, I hate an audience, stresses me, howabout you?"
Dr?........ you seem stressed......
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Ecramento, I am stressin.
But at least I don't live in an overcrowded Cowtown, although that Alex guy seems OK.
What ever came out of Sac Town besides Norman Grenbaum's Spirit In the Sky, and the Def Tones?
Papa Roach?
Break my repel line, will ya?
Cake?
Barf me.
Little Charlie is cool.
Meet me at the Towwer Cafe for some jerk chicken, on me, but yuou gotta help me with this 5.13d calaveras big trees sh#t.
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Festus
Social climber
Enron by the Sea
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And then the tide went back out to the sea...where it already was since it's part of the sea, unless it had somehow detached itself and spent a night playing low ball at a card room in Gardena before wandering home penniless after stopping at a Seven-Eleven for a raspberry Slurpee. At least it would have if the Slurpee machine wasn't broken, so it had to settle for a can of Coke and some Skittles.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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people don't talk about it so much
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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it's kind of a 'quiet' thing
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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but there is no question that it has value!
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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and i know you know what i'm talkin about
even if you wanna act like you don't know what i'm talkin about
but you know what i'm talkin about
and you know that i know that you know what i'm talkin about
...
...
...
!
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Sean Jones
climber
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Blair,
go to bed. your wife's gonna kill you then kill me because it's my fault you're stuck on this site.
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AndySan Diego
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Who will claim 1000? LOL I read this when it first started & thought it was a joke.
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BLD
climber
excramento,CA
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Dude im doing my taxes.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Warbler,
Back in '80 my perspective on sport climbing tactics was that dogging effectively kept bringing the ground up back up under the climber as they worked the route. That employing this tactic in effect reduced every move worked that way to a boulder problem. Because of this I wrote to 'Climbing' proposing that routes put up in this manner be rated with an additional 'AB' designation for 'aerial bouldering'.
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