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WBraun
climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 06:04pm PT
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God is like medicine.
Whether one believes or not God will act.
The foolish atheists waste their time arguing all while God keeps acting ......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 22, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
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Paul represents how humans have been wired towards myths, gods, angels, Adam & Eve and Noah's ark and so on. It is in our DNA.
It feel good to them, science is new and some what cold, data is cold, straight to point. Science has always answer way more about our minds, our body and natural world than religion, it's just not as warm and fuzzy. Humans want to believe they will flying around with angels for ever after.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 06:13pm PT
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Science has been around for billions of years.
It is not new.
It has been in existence since the beginning of time.
The foolish clueless modern scientists are mental speculators of the source of science .....
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 22, 2017 - 06:27pm PT
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I'm collecting the scientific responses
Cool. I think from the religion side, we have:
I'm not so shallow and ill informed to not understand
Kind of reminds me of Trump's cabinet meeting, where all his staff heaped praise on him.
I think what Trump said about himself was:
"Never has there been a president ... with few exceptions ... who's passed more legislation, who's done more things than I have."
And then he turned to his VP, whose staunch religiosity prevents him from being alone in the same room as a woman (but, huh, not with a man) to speak the first words of praise.
I expect if we really cared we could assign a truth value to that, but why bother, when his myth communicates truth directly into our psyches?
It's hard to understand how humans have survived with our petty little bullsh#t, but proof by existence is hard to refute :-)
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jun 22, 2017 - 06:40pm PT
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Kind of reminds me of Trump's cabinet meeting, where all his staff heaped praise on him.
Sounds like a personal problem.
In the very same manner, so-called "science types" can accept the wisdom of the world's religions - what extent there is - and yet consider themselves nonreligious.
If you accept the wisdom of religions and theological thought then how are you not religious?
You're parsing terms into nonsense.
It's hard to understand how humans have survived with our petty little bullsh#t, but proof by existence is hard to refute :-)
I really don't understand this post. Are you saying Trump lying is equivalent to a myth? Do you know what a myth is? A metaphor, wisdom?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 22, 2017 - 06:50pm PT
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Sounds like a personal problem.
Right? Humans have such flawless hearing. And what we like to hear is that the problem resides in other people - you know, those shallow ill informed types.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 06:52pm PT
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Well Paul, yes with some 4000 religions presently you are certainly correct we will not be seeing the end of them anytime soon.
My question, however, postulated a much longer time frame, 500-1000 years.
As you were the only one finding this interesting enough even with a short answer, thank you.
The present thread of presenting equivalences to show the other side is more personally negative is obviously more interesting to all.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jun 22, 2017 - 07:04pm PT
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The present thread of presenting equivalences to show the other side is more personally negative is obviously more interesting to all.
Yeah, a lot of injured merit out there, and too bad it could be a more positive exchange.
500 or 1000 years? Interesting to consider, my own sense is that as long as the mystery exists religion will flourish in much the same way it has.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 07:16pm PT
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HFCS wrote: Time will tell.
Time is the impersonal feature of God in the Material world.
The clueless modern mental speculating scientist will be kicked by Time itself and thus theistic God consciousness will be around eternally ......
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 22, 2017 - 07:20pm PT
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Myth? A widely held but false idea. But I expect that you prefer the other definition.
The petty little bullsh#t? Are you intending to keep an accurate and objective/scientific record of what the science types say, or are you intending to slant it by pretending it's an exhaustive record of the merits of the scientific perspective, and not just a biased self confirmation of what you have perceived as the well informed and deep understanding of your perspective? Like Trump does.
You seem better than that. But if that's the nonscience way to do things, Ok. Very beautiful stuff. Humans are exceptional.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 07:44pm PT
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Absolutely NO cure has ever been made without GOD.
Fact ......
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 22, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
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The scientific white coats have not discovered a vaccine to cure Stoopid ...
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 22, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
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And you have no way of testing that religious belief.
Only a complete ignorant total fool says this ....
And you have no way of testing that religious belief.
Oh well, I guess whatever I used to be, now I'm a complete ignorant total fool.
Or maybe humans just say stuff, in the same way that we just believe stuff. Stuff that's true, stuff that's not true, stuff that serves a different purpose than strictly it's truth value? I guess there's some orthodoxy about what and why we believe and say stuff, but maybe we don't all follow the same one.
Covfefe!
No, I mean Word!
No, I mean Fact ..... :-)
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 22, 2017 - 08:22pm PT
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rbord...Some people have a really hard understanding of what "faith" means.
faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
The duck is in left field with a catcher's mitt.
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sempervirens
climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 09:04pm PT
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Science is incapable of the kind of reconciliation to the "tragic nature of life" that religion offers. Religion offers a kind of escape hatch from tragedy which is something, an idea, that seems to "escape" the learned folk on this thread.
Science is not concerned with emotion so it doesn't address tragic nature. It addresses nature but not because of or in spite of or even in relation to human tragedy.
But the problem s that religion simply makes things up. That is the escape hatch it offers. And demands blind faith in its creations. It offers an escape hatch to those who prefer not to reason and decide for themselves. (before you get distracted, I'm not saying that would apply to all religious people, only some). While it offers solace it takes advantage of those in need of solace. For example: in the church they coddle those who need it, then demand obedience, money, allegiance. They prey on those who need the escape hatch as a tool for recruitment. Many religions encourage judgement of others who don't believe.
These things that religion offers, can't they also be obtained through art, literature, rock climbing? Then we can have an escape hatch without the crazy Bible passages and divisiveness. Sure religion has some value, no argument. I'm disparaging all these examples I've been giving you these past days. Religion is harmful. trump campaign did use it to their advantage to manipulate the gullible. That is a problem.
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sempervirens
climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 09:14pm PT
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[quote]If you accept the wisdom of religions and theological thought then how are you not religious?
You're parsing terms into nonsense. Here[/quote
Because you can find some wisdom in religious texts without accepting all of its doctrine or having faith in it. That was an easy one.
So are you saying because you accept the wisdom you are religious?? A religious atheist?
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 09:17pm PT
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Semper, it is Paul's MO, long in ST history now, to skip the points you made, it is as if his eyes are made to see only the assets column of religion's balance sheet.
It is incredible that this can be. But it IS so.
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sempervirens
climber
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Jun 22, 2017 - 09:28pm PT
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t is Paul's MO, long in ST history now, to skip the points you made, it is as if his eyes are made to see only the assets column of religion's balance sheet.
It is incredible that this can be. But it IS so.
And it's my opinion that that balance sheet is decidedly tipped toward the liabilities side.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Jun 22, 2017 - 09:38pm PT
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rbord: And you have no way of testing that religious belief.
How do you test whether or not you have consciousness / awareness? There are some things that are self-verifying . . . if that’s important to you.
Bob: faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
How do you know you are you? What kind of "belief" do you have about that?
Seem like a silly thing to ask? Some people think it is. Some folks cannot deny their own experience. Look across the room. Is there a wall there? Do you doubt it? Should you?
Direct apprehension comes with self-authentication. Actually, most understanding ends up to be direct apprehension, although for most folks, it takes a little while to “get it.” Let’s say I teach you differential calculus, and I have to explain it to you 25 times before you “get it.” But when you do, it gets easy. Nothing I can do or say makes you get it. When you get it, YOU get it. That’s direct apprehension. It can be found in many other things than maths. It can even be found in things that can’t be described or things that can’t be seen. Direct apprehension is the result of a self-authentication, but that self authentication is an inside job of an individual.
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