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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Dec 18, 2014 - 09:44pm PT
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there's no mistake there, but i will expand it a bit.
the equipment for belief in myth (and other projected imaginary worlds, like social schemas) evolved long ago in a very different world. We have that equipment still - and we're unlikely to lose it through future evolution.
But evolution is no longer just a human physiological enterprise. Memes and technology evolve as well now , and all these various types of evolution are linked with one another. these two newcomers to the evolution game now hold the key to our survival. in a resource depleted, overpopulated world with a collapsing echo system, religion - and the violence, repression, ignorance, and science denial it promotes, arguably endangers our species more than it aids us. throw in technology - the miniaturization and democratization of weaponry - incl. nukes and bio weapons, and religious fervor starts to look like an indulgence we can no longer afford
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dec 18, 2014 - 09:54pm PT
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current environment?
aren't you giving the organism to much credit. after all, all organism's are directly proportional to it's environment. the planet spun way before any life! just try and think of how many days the sun wept without any eyes around to see all the different colors of her sunsets! as an evolutionist you should be able to mourn with her grief!? afterall, another sun did die to become your living body, didn't she? Amen. There is such a direct correlation between the Sun's purpose and the Eyeball. it would be hard not to imagine all the sun's sitting around making up myths about,"maybe someday there be balls flying around appreciating our colors!"
Awareness has brought the creationist the ability to stop stareing at the sun and to look within to the Father who's son died so that my spirit may go on living.
a Sun is responsible for your body.
a Son is responsible for your soul.
two myths, or two absolutes.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Dec 18, 2014 - 09:56pm PT
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waiter, i'll have what he's having.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Dec 18, 2014 - 10:23pm PT
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No fathers or sons or kings or queens...just you, us, it. The nukes and repressions and religious fervor is just a brilliant dance.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Dec 18, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
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^Cheers Tvash
i jus don't think you think deep enough. whereas Paul, he's obliviously smart enough to be a believer. i wonder what has stalled him?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Dec 18, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
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Hey blue, you forgot the link.
I'm definitely interested.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 18, 2014 - 11:02pm PT
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Thought for the night: "At the side of the everlasting "Why" there is a yes and a yes and a yes."
E. M. Forster
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Dec 19, 2014 - 04:37am PT
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Somewhere an annual sales conference is missing its keynote speaker.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 08:58am PT
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Somewhere an annual sales conference is missing its keynote speaker.
They're missing you and HFCS.
You guys will save the world.
The rest will leave you behind on your little island ........
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 19, 2014 - 10:47am PT
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A bit of myth for my friend, Tvash.
Dorje Tröllö (image below) is the incendiary holder of the Three Terrible Oaths:
-Whatever happens; may it happen!
-Whichever way it goes; may it go that way!
-There is no purpose!
The Three Terrible Oaths are a statement which places the practitioner in the entirety of his or her own situation. There is no ‘nicer’ spiritual world to which the practitioner can retreat. Whatever happens; may it happen, means that we do not make attempts at surreptitious deals with reality in which we delude ourselves that our practice will allow us to ‘live happily ever after’. Whichever way it goes; may it go that way, means that when we fall from the towering cliff of birth – we do not pretend that the end result of that fall is not death. There is no purpose, means that there is no one overriding, overarching, all inclusive – ‘purpose’. God is not working ‘His’ purpose out. There is no such ‘God’ and no such ‘purpose’. Reality is simply the dance of emptiness and form and compassion is the recognition that everything is its own purpose of itself. Each moment of reality is perfect as it is. When Dorje Tröllö proclaims ‘There is no purpose’ – he declares ‘there is no one purpose’. Purposes are pluralistic because compassion is pluralistic. Compassion is pluralistic because compassion is form and form arises in infinite variety as responses to the needs of beings. There is no ‘will of God’, there is only the necessity initiated by the unique circumstances of each phenomenal point-instant of reality.
Dorje Tröllö - most wrathful of the eight manifestations of Padmasambhava
Dorje Tröllö is the crazy wisdom manifestation of Guru Rinpoche – the Second Buddha. Crazy wisdom – yeshé cholwa is the style of enlightened activity which cuts through spiritual materialism in its most subtle forms. When self-indulgence and self-centred arrogance attempt to appropriate ‘spiritual reasoning’ as part of a manipulative strategy, yeshé cholwa gives the disciple the common sense which might come from a solid worldly-wise grandparent. When self-validation and self-protectiveness attempt to cushion the reality of the teachings through willful linearity, yeshé cholwa destroys the conventional spiritual reference points which support dualistic artifice. Dorje Tröllö rides a pregnant tigress who is about to give birth. This is the most dangerous kind of tiger. The tiger represents Yeshé Tsogyel. Dorje Tröllö holds a phurba in his left hand and a vajra in his right hand. The phurba stabs attraction, aversion, and indifference; and the vajra overpowers all apparent phenomena.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:09am PT
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Proof positive that a pregnant tiger in the bedroom is probably not the best idea.
I would also note that the Christian Definition of 'perfect' might beg to differ from the one presented here.
Although what is presented here seems to represent reality a bit more accurately than a host of angels, zombie man-gods, and humans that live longer than galaxies.
I would also note that about half of Seattle's hipsters seem to have that scene or a reasonable facsimile thereof tattooed somewhere on their pasty white bodies.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:11am PT
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re: good n evil (1) in nature (2) in mythology (3) in the game of life
"There is nothing very odd about lambs disliking birds of prey, but this is no reason for holding it against large birds of prey that they carry off lambs. And when the lambs whisper among themselves, "These birds of prey are evil, and does this not give us a right to say that whatever is the opposite of a bird of prey must be good," there is nothing intrinsically wrong with such an argument-though the birds of prey will look somewhat quizzically and say, We have nothing against these good lambs; in fact, we love them; nothing tastes better than a tender lamb." -Nietz
With this kind of understanding, who needs Original Sin and The Fall from Abrahamic mythology?
.....
re: on the game of life
“I thought to myself with what means, with what deceptions, with how many varied arts, with what industry a man sharpens his wits to deceive another and through these variations the world is made more beautiful.” F Vettori
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 19, 2014 - 11:49am PT
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" for it is only as an aesthetic experience that existence and the world are eternally justified."
F.N.
Curious thing nature, she requires all higher forms of life to devour life itself in order to survive not unlike the Ouroboros depicted earlier on this thread, a mythological animal that serves as a metaphor for this disturbing fact of life.
Good or bad? What should we do when the tiger devours our loved one, cry out in agony, curse the beast, kill it or shout bon appetite! To demand absolute subjectivity, absolute relativism from concepts like good and bad is as foolish as demanding their absolute objectivity.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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So there's a soft art to it.
At least on average or to the impartial outside observer.
To the parent of the eaten offspring, not so much.
"Our great mother Eywa does not take sides, Jake; only protects the balance of life."
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:05pm PT
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At least to the impartial outside observer.
Your own beloved science theorizes the impossibility of such an "observer."
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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Well I don't know, but you got the first part right...
My... own beloved science...
I (heart) science!
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
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Cool post MikeL!
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Dec 19, 2014 - 12:09pm PT
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You can demand whatever you like - Tyger Tyger won't mind. It's all your call - objectively speaking, of course.
I once spotted a wood duck floating peacefully in the middle of a high lake in the Wallowas. A red tail hawk appeared and began diving for it. The wood duck did a bit of diving of its own - careful to surface in a new spot every time.
This dance continued for 10 rounds or so - it was quite protracted and very dramatic.
In the beginning, I rooted for the duck, as you do.
By the end, I was rooting for the hungry hawk rather than the fattened duck.
The duck won that match, by the way.
The further we step away from ourselves and our subjectivity, the more good and bad fades into nothing.
If we go, all our subjective value judgements - good or bad, pretty or ugly, go with us.
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