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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
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Great account of their climb, great statement, I loved every word of it.
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
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@philo
But to assume that Rolo played the role of Svengalli and pressured K&K to do his dirty work is absurd. That is not the Rolando I know.
not the Rolo that is RE-writing the history, not the one that is RE-baptizing the toponomastic...
why not? why should not I think that one that is so clearly in bad faith can't do that?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
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You can think that way till the cows come home and you'd still be wrong.
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
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I may be wrong but nevertheless he's an as#@&%e
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:14pm PT
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No he is not. He is a friend and one of the humblest men I know.
You're not liking his take on things doesn't diminish his character.
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Kinobi
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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Interesting Philo.
Can you ask me to reply to my email regarding Torre Egger?
Thanks,
E
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
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Kruk:
We also used two of Maestri's original belays on the headwall. These were in spots in close-proximity to other natural anchor options. Believe us, we know how to build gear anchors. The fact that we were planning on leaving these bolts in anyways, meant it was too silly not to use them on the ascent.
Huh?
That reads like the had planned to chop before they had reached to top.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
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Words like rape and atrocity in connection with the bolts has no great ethical weight, and make the article a ST-like polemical one. As the years go by I hope K&K will reach a higher level of ethical reflection.
Those words entirely and accurately reflect the outcome of Maestri's actions on Cerro Torre in 1970.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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"The fact that we were planning on leaving these bolts in anyways, meant it was too silly not to use them on the ascent."
I agree, this is a perplexing comment. The argument can be extended to any or all of the bolts.
[Once again (I claim), belays are part of climbing, too. And I say this with the memory of the many complex, time-consuming, often terrifying and uncomfortable boltless belays from my repertoire of big wall first ascents].
But quite a good piece of writing otherwise.
On the other hand...
"Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it anyhow."
 Elbert Hubbard
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
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This is one of the best parts:
"As long as the hardware remained it was justification for the unreasonable use of bolts by others. We are part of the next generation, the young group of aspiring alpinists. This is a statement we felt other young alpinists needed to hear.
Our real feelings were confirmed by three young Argentine climbers we passed on the Torre Glacier while hiking out of the range. Their eyes lit up as they told us how inspired they were to climb on Cerro Torre now, to train harder, to be better. To rise up to the challenge that has been restored to the mountain. Two days later they would make a rare ascent of Aguja Standhardt, via Festerville. Respect."
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
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Interesting Philo.Can you ask me to reply to my email regarding Torre Egger?
Thanks,
E
OK. Kinobi, I ask you to reply to your email regarding Torre Egger?
That's not what you probably meant.
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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After having read the Alpinist article from Hayden and Kruk, I am more troubled.
I really don't have the inclination to parse through, point by point, addressing everything i took issue with, but let's just say that it was a very shallow and poorly reflected attempt at justifying their actions.
And to open with the following:
"As a society we have removed other mistakes, like the Berlin Wall. History doesn't stop. History is happening right now. Hopefully the bolts are history someday." - Zach Smith
Surely the ignorance and hubris in the quote is apparent to everyone, regardless of their feelings about the bolt removal?
To have to young kids, yes KIDS, armed with the level of ignorance and poorly formed opinions that they obviously had, decide for the rest of the climbing community the fate of an historic climb, is rather saddening to say the least.
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Kinobi
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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Yes Philo. This is what I meant but mispelled. "ask him".
Best,
E
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:46pm PT
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Then you will have to wait for his answer.
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Kinobi
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:51pm PT
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"Then you will have to wait for his answer."
I am here to wait for his answer.
And, of course, since he now have a house not farther than 35 km from De Donà place, he might even go there to clarify his (Garibotti) claims. May be bringing some yourger punkers will help.
Best,
E
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
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Kimbo -- "To have to young kids, yes KIDS, ... "
Are stupid or something?
They're not kids.
Now go sit in the corner and figure out why you are making a childish kids conclusion .....
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
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Kimbo writes: To have to young kids, yes KIDS, armed with the level of ignorance and poorly formed opinions that they obviously had, decide for the rest of the climbing community the fate of an historic climb, is rather saddening to say the least.
----
By most any definition, the 1970 Compressor Route was a "historical" climb only by dint of its level of degradation, a kind of eco-terrorist strike by a talented but misguided man. So it is curious that you would be "sad" about what to many was an travesty by a lunatic.
Irregardless of Kennedy and Kruk, what part of Maestri are you defending? His myth making? His compressor? The route that ran roughshod over every know value of fair play by it's excesses?
They way some make it sound, you'd think Kennedy and Kruk spray painted swasticas on the synagogue walls, whereas from where I'm siting, they scrubbed off Maestri's graffiti with their bare hands.
JL
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 26, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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I wonder who are the most embarassed by their statements ...
Probably they are not even able to realize what they have written and what they have done ... perhaps they should be accepted the way they are ...
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
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The only people who should be embarrassed in all this are the ones throwing hissy fits over the removal of some bolts.
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 26, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
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Are stupid or something?
They're not kids.
Now go sit in the corner and figure out why you are making a childish kids conclusion .....
stupid? perhaps....
but, i use "kids" metaphorically. chronologically and biologically, i do believe they recently qualified for "adult" status as humanoids, but their actions and commentary on said actions firmly entrench them in the "kid" category.
or maybe they did bring the berlin wall down. sheesh, how can i overlook this?
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