Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
|
If you are as poor as you say you are, how much can you possibly be buying in one week.
You don't get it Lois, but oh well. I obviously can't explain it to you, but hopefully you don't have to learn the hard way.
Old lady eating cat food because that is all she can afford. She doesn't buy much. You add 2 percent to the cost. Big deal. Now she buys 2 percent less cat food a year. You must be right. Not that big of a deal. It is only 2 percent.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 05:14pm PT
|
Just shut the f*#k up John. You made a speculative claim, based on a std GOP talking point, it was false, you were called on it. I ain't your errand boy. Your entire premise - that Buffet is misrepresenting the facts, was preemptively addressed by Buffet himself on national televsion.
Typical republican, spend years crying about "personal responsibilty" and then fail to EVER take ownership when you are wrong.
Provide me proof that he disclosed his and his secretary's tax returns, so that we can verify his claim, and I'll shut up. Until then, I don't believe you.
John
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 05:31pm PT
|
Why did you pick 2 percent as the rate? What did you base this on?
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 05:56pm PT
|
Ah, if only the annointed could keep the great unwashed from the polls.
Speaking to a Cary rotary club today, N.C. Gov. Bev Perdue suggested suspending Congressional elections for two years so that Congress can focus on economic recovery and not the next election.
"I think we ought to suspend, perhaps, elections for Congress for two years and just tell them we won't hold it against them, whatever decisions they make, to just let them help this country recover. I really hope that someone can agree with me on that," Perdue said. "You want people who don't worry about the next election."
The comment -- which came during a discussion of the economy -- perked more than a few ears. It's unclear whether Perdue, a Democrat, is serious -- but her tone was level and she asked others to support her on the idea.
Read more: http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/perdue_suggests_suspending_congressional_elections_for_two_years_was_she_serious#ixzz1ZBxZVsfy[/quote]
From former budget director Peter Orzag
we need to counter the gridlock of our political institutions by making them a bit less democratic.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 06:15pm PT
|
Our GDP is about 14.12 trillion dollars.
We currently spend 16 percent of our GDP on healthcare, or .. 2.25 trillion dollars. We don't currently cover everyone. Canada spend 12 percent of its GDP on healthcare.
2 percent is 282.4 billion dollars. You have some ground to make up. 16 percent is a whole lot different from 2 percent.
GDP is goods and services. So to collect this we would have to tax services also, including healthcare, insurance, energy production, etc.
...
I would pay 2 percent, if it really was 2 percent. But it is not. I could not afford 16 percent.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 06:20pm PT
|
John wrote: That investigation demonstrated that the rich pay a higher rate than the middle class on average. This was apparently news to the left. It was no news to the rest of us.
John..funny. What is the left is saying that the rich are paying historical low tax rate. I say we return to the Reagan tax rate. What part of that don't you understand?
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 06:40pm PT
|
Lois...you will never see a national health care system like the one you are touting as long as you and your kind continue to vote republican.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 06:48pm PT
|
I don't care what Obama said. I knew he wouldn't be able to do it. I was voting against McCain/Palin.
284 billion is still a long way from 2.25 trillion.
|
|
CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
|
Wrong. He provided [his tax returns] it on Charlie Rose back in August.
Again, this did not include the 35% corporate tax... factor this in and he is likely paying twice the rate his secretary pays.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:05pm PT
|
The birthing of Solyndra
By Dana Milbank, Published: September 26
Solyndra is trying to rival her big sister Katrina’s ability to make the federal government look incompetent. But whose baby is she?
Since the solar-energy company went belly-up a few weeks ago — leaving taxpayers on the hook for $535 million in loan guarantees — a business that was once the poster child for President Obama’s green-jobs initiative has instead become a tool for Republicans to discredit most everything the administration seeks to do.
Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah used Solyndra to argue against worker-training benefits. Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina used it to argue that the federal government should stay out of autism research. Disaster relief, cancer treatments, you name it: Solyndra has been an argument against them.
And this week, the government faced the prospect of a shutdown because House Republicans added a provision to the spending bill to draw more attention to — what else? — Solyndra.
“Because of some of the horrible weather we have had over the past several weeks, we have all agreed to add emergency funds we didn’t originally plan in this bill, and Republicans have identified a couple of cuts,” explained Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, including “a cut to a loan-guarantee program that gave us the Solyndra scandal.”
What McConnell neglected to mention is that Solyndra was cleared to participate in this loan-guarantee program by President George W. Bush’s administration. He also did not mention that the legislation creating the loan-guarantee program, approved by the Republican-controlled Congress in 2005, received yes votes from — wait for it — DeMint, Hatch and McConnell.
This doesn’t mean that Bush is to blame for Solyndra or that the Obama administration should be absolved. Obama, whose administration gave the company the loan guarantee, deserves the black eye that Republicans have given him over the half a billion dollars squandered on the company. But the Republican paternity of the program that birthed Solyndra suggests some skepticism is in order when many of those same Republicans use Solyndra as an example of all that is wrong with Obama’s governance.
“Loan guarantees aim to stimulate investment and commercialization of clean energy technologies to reduce our nation’s reliance on foreign sources of energy,” Bush’s energy secretary, Sam Bodman, announced in a press release on Oct. 4, 2007. The release said the Energy Department had received 143 pre-applications for the guarantees and narrowed the list down to 16 finalists — including Solyndra. Bodman said the action put “Americans one step closer to being able to use new and novel sources of energy on a mass scale to reduce emissions and allow for vigorous economic growth and increased energy security.”
Bush’s Energy Department apparently adjusted its regulations to make sure that Solyndra would be eligible for the guarantees. It hadn’t originally contemplated including the photovoltaic-panel manufacturing that Solyndra did but changed the regulation before it was finalized. The only project that benefited was Solyndra’s.
The loan-guarantee program for these alternative energy companies, in turn, was created as part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 — sponsored by Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.), who has been a leader in the congressional probe of Solyndra’s ties to the Obama administration.
Among those in the Republican majority who supported the bill was Rep. Louie Gohmert (Tex.), who, in a trio of speeches on the House floor in recent days, has taken a rather different approach than the one in the legislation he supported.
On Sept. 13, he invoked “the Solyndra fiasco” and said we are “prioritizing green practices kind of like a bankrupt Spain has done.” On Sept. 15, he denounced Obama’s new jobs proposals because “green programs, like Solyndra, will have priority.” On Sept. 23, he complained: “Apparently, half a billion dollars squandered for crony capitalism was not enough. There’s more provisions for that in the president’s so-called jobs bill.”
Also supporting the legislation creating the loan-guarantee program was Rep. David Dreier (R-Calif.), who on Sept. 22 said on the House floor that Republicans were removing $100 million from the loan-guarantee program “to ensure that we never again have another boondoggle like Solyndra.”
The complaints were much the same in the Senate, where DeMint said the Solyndra case exposed the “unintended results when our government tries to pick winners and losers.” That’s a valid criticism, but it would be more valid if DeMint hadn’t been a supporter of the loan-guarantee legislation in 2005.
But that was before Obama’s presidency, and views back then were different. They were more like the March 2008 press release from Bush’s Energy Department, announcing that it was funding research projects on photovoltaic technology. “These projects are integral to President Bush’s Solar America Initiative, which aims to make solar energy cost-competitive with conventional forms of electricity by 2015,” the announcement said.
Among the winners listed in the press release? Solyndra.
Lying Republican F*cks. Just another LEB "misunderstanding".
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:28pm PT
|
Fat wrote: Hedge,
My more conservative Repubs will support a moderate if it gets Obama the Socialist out.
Yes..the same way Cantor is for spending cuts and less government.
Yes...the same way Reagan didn't raise taxes.
Yes...the same way there was WMD's in Iraq.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:48pm PT
|
Corporate tax? Why would a private individual pay a corporate tax?
For the same reason an individual pays a property tax or an excise tax. Unfortunately, the econometric literature has demonstrated that economists don't -- and can't -- know who pays the corporate income tax, but every cent of the corporate income tax gets paid by individuals.
Assuming Buffett's income consists primarily of dividends and capital gains (only a guess because his allowing Rose to get a peek at his tax return does not constitute verification to the general public), those items depend on corporate earnings. A corporation may lawfully pay a dividend only from earnings and profits. That would be after-tax income, since corporations cannot deduct dividends. In that case, the 35% rate has direct relevance. For capital gains, we simply don't know.
John
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
|
Bob,
To which Reagan rates do you wish to return? I remember when the highest marginal rate was 28%. Is that the rate you want?
John
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:50pm PT
|
MARS ATTACKS..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MhgnMX73Pw
this film is 30 minutes long and will make liberal heads explode
the logic in that movie is pathetic. But then I'm not surprised. Because bookworm supports it.
The funny part is that I think abortion is wrong.
|
|
CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:52pm PT
|
Corporate tax? Why would a private individual pay a corporate tax? Your statement makes no sense. If you recall the US Supreme Court granted Berkshire Hathaway full person hood, Berkie pays its own taxes.
Do you have any clue what equity means? It means he owns shares of a corporation. The dividends these shares provide come from the corporation's profits, correct? But these profits are taxed 35% at the corporate tax rate.
This is analogous to payroll taxes, which your company pays on your behalf (another hidden tax), but only an idiot can't see that it is part of his/her tax burden.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
|
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 08:08pm PT
|
Joe, Fatty wants an extremist republican. He wants to destroy medicare and social security and he will need an extremist to do that.
|
|
CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 08:12pm PT
|
Shall we then factor in all the other taxes his secretary pays as well? Sales, state, etc? Who do you think page a higher % of their income then?
Obviously, Buffett's right - his secretary pays about double the income tax rate he does, and if you "factor in" all taxes paid by both, it's still much higher.
That is pure fantasy. I guess Buffet doesn't pay state or sales tax (not to mention property taxes which most secretaries do not have to worry about)? Naturally, he does not take all of his capital gains every year and buy furniture from Ikea, but that is a good thing - as long as the money stays in equity it is only a number that allows a company to hire more people or make capital investments. It is not used to bid up the price of Top Ramen at Safeway. Why we are taxing this at all is absurd. If we really wanted to stimulate our economy we would use a "consumption only" tax like the Fair tax.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Sep 27, 2011 - 08:19pm PT
|
35% Corporate tax
What BS. Microsoft and many fortune 500 companies often pay NO INCOME TAX. Theoretically it's 35% but NONE of them actually pay that much if they have a decent accounting/Tax professionals
as for Lois's consumption tax, wouldn't that slow growth and our economic engine? After all, what's the alternative to consumption for those with big money, Stashing it away in trusts in the Cayman Islands? Offshoring jobs to China? How do collect it if I order stuff from China (where I get books published with no sales tax)
Why so protective of those uber-rich who are paying unprecedented low rates (ElCap posted proof) and whose lifestyle would be untouched? And if the economy improved, they just get richer still, that's why stocks have been proved to go up under Democrats (remember I posted Proof)
Nobody gets rich without the infrastructure of roads, military and all the rest of stuff including the efforts of poor people. Why do they want a free ride from the government. Taxes aren't bad, they are part of a cooperative society and the GOP has demonized them. It's sorta like saying, "Children should be paying rent and fees to their parents form the day they are born... of course they can't pay right away but can rack up the debt for when they are older"
By demanding trillions of military spending with no higher taxes, they are demanding their kids pay.
Peace
Karl
PS, I'm sure Buffett knows how much taxes he pays and that what he's saying is substantially correct at least abstractly, which is that he could easily and comfortably afford to pay far more in taxes and that it's stupid for the nation to suffer to make him super duper duper duper rich instead of just double duper rich
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|