Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2011 - 10:53pm PT
|
Those rods are getting hot and they're hot to go.
They're gonna melt all the way thru the earth and come the other side while some nuke expert is sitting on the can .......
|
|
Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
|
Can't wait for this years Facelift, when everyone gets to meet face to face, and work together as a team.
|
|
BLD
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2011 - 11:29pm PT
|
Hey look there is a cargo ship in my back yard! Oh wait my house is gone! No wait, all the houses are gone??? Oh, there's one...... What's up with the cars on the roof? Hey have you seen my dog? Where is everybody? Why is the power plant pouring out smoke? My kids are at school..... Is the school still there? My wife works at food co, did that area get hit?
This thread has drifted into a knowledge and cut and paste competition. Not that the information posted in the neuclear disaster section wasn't incredibly informative. I learned quite a bit and frankly was set at ease.
The original post was about the quake and tsunami which forsure caused the complications with Fukushima.
It seems that once the posibility of fallout was to hit the US the people in the disaster zones were forgotten. (even in the main stream media)
In Tee Ball we tell the five year olds to keep their eye on the ball while they swing the bat and the ball is not even moving.
What do you tell the 40 year olds when the ball is moving?
I don't know what to do about the reactors or the spent file rods but based on the the intelligence of some of the folks posting here. I'm guessing the people heading out to fix Fukushima got it under control.
B
My thoughts and prayers are with all of them.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 12:02am PT
|
from a link off of the previously referred to MIT site:
the readings above background in the area around the Dai-ichi nuclear power plant
for scale the normal human dose from natural background radiation for a year is 2.4 mSv, there are 8760 hours in a year which is a rate of 0.27 microSv/hr...
the gamma-ray exposure 1m above ground in the US is mapped here:
1 Sv = 100 R so 1 uR/hr for one year is roughly 0.1 mSv of natural background gamma-radiation from terrestrial sources (uranium, thorium, potassium)
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 12:08am PT
|
dirtbag,
So you are saying that we should shut down the windmills???
You are a silly round man.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 12:12am PT
|
Roger: Can't wait for this years Facelift, when everyone gets to meet face to face, and work together as a team.
Roger that. We do squabble sometimes, at least some of us. But everyone gets along fine in person. No news that people say things on the internet, and anonymously, that they'd never say to someone's face, and that it's very easy to misunderstand what's being said without the nuances of tone, expression and gesture.
|
|
BLD
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 12:19am PT
|
TGT, that is brutal.
It's so sad and even more sad that their government hasn't done more to help all.
They down play the severity of everything.
Look at the death toll and then look at the population of the cities that are gone.
The numbers don't add up!
I think the next few days are going reveal the start of what the truth is over there.
Another thing that is so f#cking disturbing. They pump 34 billion or whatever? Into the banks to help the ¢$$$$$$. And then ask for help?
Get your eye on the ball people!
This is a tragic event but watch how it becomes a embarrassing event for the japanese government!
B
|
|
cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 12:24am PT
|
My experience living within ten miles of Three Mile Island in 1979 was pretty scary for a while there. Turned out okay, though, by pure luck. Going bouldering about a mile away from the dread island tomorrow, actually.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 12:27am PT
|
Roger what Tami says. The priority now is to offer and provide help to Japan and its people, with the primary conduit for private donations being the International Red Cross. That's all we decently can do that may help.
Overall, once there is reasonably complete and reliable information, and a bit of time to think, I suspect that Japan and its people will overall be seen to have done a good job of preparing for and responding to a triple disaster, perhaps even a very good job. Probably better than any other nation might do. And they may recover more quickly. Yes, it's a disaster, and the human, economic and environmental damage is enormous. But let's wait for a bit of context, eh?
Those from the US with 20:20 hindsight, and who are full of ideas as to what should be done in Japan, should remember New Orleans. The US, and FEMA, should be over in Japan helping now, and learning.
It does highlight how unprepared we are in BC for such an event. We probably wouldn't have a big tsunami in Vancouver, but there would be one on the west coast of the island, particularly Victoria. And 9.0 on the Juan de Fuca fault would likely translate into a lot of old buildings and structures collapsing in Victoria and Vancouver (just like Christchurch), and a lot of structural damage.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 02:48am PT
|
Oh sh'it!!!
The thread was going all directions with with all kinds of cool, crazy, and stupid stuff and then!!!!
The thread control Nazis show up.
Everyone was already hyper tuned to the suffering to begin with ......
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 02:48am PT
|
I would like this thread to eventually start talking about solutions to the problem and what we can do to help the people of Japan. I'm thinking we have many sins as a nation to atone for (Hiroshima and Nakasaki, and the internment camps during WW2).
Not nearly as many sins as the former Japanese government and Imperial Army had to atone for. Please read some WWII history. And don't mention this line of thinking to the Japanese. Given their shame culture, they would rather forget about that whole era of history.
Maybe it is time to take in families that have lost everything and give them a safe new start here in America if they so desire.
While many young Japanese would jump at the chance to live in America, most wouldn't and for sure, the elderly who make up a large percentage of the survivors, would not want to move outside Japan. They didn't even want to live in Tokyo with their children who work there, that's why the northeastern area is filled with elderly people.
In general, Japanese people do not feel comfortable living outside of Japan more than a few years. Their culture is so unique and their society so safe and well ordered and pleasant, only countries like Switzerland can match it in appeal.
The best thing you can do is donate to the Japanese Red Cross, and maybe later on, groups like Habitat for Humanity will call for volunteers.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 03:32am PT
|
The Japanese national television network, NHK, is now broadcasting some interesting information along with diagrams, on how exactly they are cooling the reactors with water canon and fire engines.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv
From what I've seen, the electric company Tepco tried to handle this as an internal matter and the Japanese government which was preoccupied with saving lives from the earthquake and tsunami, relied on their reassurances for way too long.
Only after the arrival of international experts, did the Japanese government take charge and order the Tokyo fire fighters and their trucks to the scene. The "Hyper Rescue" firefighters are the ones who have rigged efficient water pumping and spraying finally. They also figured out how to position the hoses on still standing buildings so that the firefighters do not have to be close to the reactors in order to spray them.
I fear that in the end a lot of Tepco employees will suffer and die from radiation because they did not have the expertise that the high rise firefighters of Tokyo do, but were still willing to risk their lives and health to try to save others.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 06:24am PT
|
By the way, you should worry about the calibration of your radiation monitor, and what, exactly, it is measuring... very easy to get incorrect readings due to the detailed inner workings and then draw erroneous conclusions based on instrumental effects... happens all the time. Without having to look, at the manual and/or online, do you know whether your survey meter and counter has a GM tube or an ion chamger, and the benifits and drawbacks of each?
BTW... The counter is easy, if you even know what GM tube stands for.
Without having to look, can you tell us why it is easy, with the appropriate instruments, for someone to tell exactly which radionucliotide is in a sample of contamination? Do you know what a DAC and/or DAC Hour is? Can you tell us, without having to look, exactly what a Roentgen is, quantitatively? You 'spelled' out the word in a previous thread. How 'bout a curie?
ALL of these questions are relevant concerning 'contamination', as your tools will detect gamma for anyone, BUT, if you understand how they work, you can get an idea of type and exact location (not just general).
I have also been "contaminatied", more than once... OMFG!!!!!!!!! Should I worry? Am I gonna die? Nope! They wiped it off with a 'wet wipe', like you'd wipe a baby's ass with, and I went home, 'contamination free'. Dose recieved, 0 mRem from it.
I go through a PCM (Personal Contamination Monitor)... If it alarms, I go through another to verify, and to qualitify type and quantity of contamination (usually it's just gas [E.g., radon]), then I am frisked with a Geiger Counter to locate. Health Physicist wipes it off with wet wipe, refrisks to verify its gone, then I go through the PCM again, wait for "clean", then exit the RCA (Radiologically Controlled Area).
And, as a double check, EVERYONE goes through a monitor as they leave site.
And, again, anyone who smokes get's an 'uptake' or rodaioactive particles, as well as anyone who lives near a coal fired power plant.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 06:36am PT
|
93 out of the 104 U.S. nuclear plants have battery backup power to run the cooling generators for only four hours. (Japan's battery backup was 8 hour capability.) What this leaves out is, that ALL US planats have SAMA (Severe Accident Mitigation Alternatives) Diesels that are dedicated to continually charge these batterries. These were 'add ons' to the nukes after 9/11. So, they are almost like an entirely different EDG system.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 06:47am PT
|
I disagree with Japan, and some others, moving Fuku from a 4 to a 5 on the scale, where Chernoby is a 7 and TMI is a 5. It is CLEARLY a 6, as it goes FAR beyond what happened at TMI, but is still FAR below what happened at Chernobyl. Even what's happened at just 1 of the worst units at Fuku puts it beyond TMI, and they have 6 units in varying degrees of distress.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 07:55am PT
|
I don't understand the hostility towards thinking outside the box.
Brutha... It is GOOD to have an open mind, just not so open that your brain falls out.
Critical thinking requires disciplined thinking.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 08:00am PT
|
Perhaps you could mix something into the concrete that would increase its thermal conductivity to help drain energy away. rrrADAM do you know about this? Anybody know how to to that kind of calculation? I am know very little about thermodynamics, so I can't really answer that, other than...
Just like in your car's radiator, water abosorbes the heat, then gives it off to the radiator, then it goes back to the engine for more heat. There has to be a heat sink, a place to dump the heat, so where would it go from the concrete, as I would believe you would have little heat transfer from concrete, and it would almost insulate it keeping the heat in.
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 08:15am PT
|
Oh, yea, he was not a trinitarian. He believed Jesus was not equal to GOD, but his Son. How could the Son and the Father be one? It is a mystery of the ages. I give him a break on that. So good of you to give Mr Newton a break on that... Too bad he weren't alive today, and perhaps participating in this thread, as I'm sure you could 'set him straight'.
BTW... Jesus certainly didn't believe he was God, which is why he "prayed to God".
Now, enough of this nonsense, and back to what is happening for real to the people of Japan, not what is happening in the minds of fanciful people.
Edit... And I am fully aware that I am certainly more guilty than most concerning getting into pissing matches, and getting off topic. I am easily baither and even trolled because of this. :/
|
|
rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
|
|
|
Mar 19, 2011 - 08:40am PT
|
THere are areas around Chernobyl that can't be repopulation for 20,000 years. Coal can do nothing like that. Japan is a small country and oceanside land is even more important. 20,000 years is a long time to give up substantial areas.
This is very misleading, as the city of Chernoby is frequented by 'nuclear tourists', some people live there, and they can all see the plant not far off in the distance (see below). The accident site itself is where people are restricted from going due to contamination.
And, people even still live in the city:
Though the city today is mostly uninhabited, a small number of people reside in houses marked with signs stating that the "Owner of this house lives here". Workers on watch and administrative personnel of the Zone of Alienation are stationed in the city on a long term basis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!