Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
The Republicans had a plan...? Yuk , yuk...
I've never understood the "force" of the argument underlying lines like this. Is it supposed to be something along these lines???
"The Republicans had plenty of years to do something about the health care problem and didn't. Therefore it's a great thing that the Democrats finally got a window of time in which they had complete power and so were able to foist off on Americans this increasingly-obvious cluster-coitus of a 'plan' that NOBODY knew 'what was in it' until it was, well, FOISTED off on Americans."
Something like: "It's FAR better to do something, anything, even if it's terrible and worse, than to just keep thinking about 'the problem' (whatever that was) until we can come to a consensus about a genuine solution."
Could it be, just possibly, that the supposedly horrendous lack of health insurance "suffered" by (supposedly) "so many Americans" reflected a matter of their INDIVIDUAL spending priorities (and lifestyle CHOICES) rather than some "vast problem" that WE the People just had to rush in to "correct?"
Perhaps the Republicans did nothing, just perhaps, because they weren't agreed in principle with the notion that the best course of action is always (or even usually) for government to go rushing in.
Perhaps, just perhaps, there should be been even LESS of a rush to "pass this so that we can see what's in it." I mean, even with three years of lead time, the most powerful administration in human history clearly needed more time. (Of course, when pushed to provide the nation with even a year's more lead time, this administration "would not negotiate," preferring instead to do essentially the same things by presidential fiat, which was the whole point to the grand game all along.)
Oh, and has the net effect of Obumblecare yet been demonstrated (or even projected) to have the effect of regulating or reining-in insurance company profits?
But, right... the republicans had no plan. Therefore, clearly, Obumblecare was the way to go.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
Yeah, well, there are things that SHOULD be done in an office and things that should NOT be done by a government.
Edit: Oh, and you clearly missed my point entirely. No surprise, since you're clearly one that will be defending Obumblecare even when EVERY (thinking) person (including some Democrats) is backpedaling from it. Whatever WAS "the answer," Obumblecare was NOT it.
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
Well boss, you see I haven't accomplished anything in decades, because, well, uh, we haven't reached a consensus about a genuine solution yet...
Well, boss, you see... we just spent the company into oblivion chasing a non-problem that half of our customers didn't even see as a problem and the other half aren't really our customers, and we "accomplished" that by dreaming up a hair-brained scheme that we "sold" to our real customers by outright lying to them, and that hair-brained scheme turns out to not even address the "real problem" in the first place because, actually, we didn't really understand ANY of this. I'm getting a big bonus for all this, right?
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
madbolter...1...Sorry for being cynical but If i remember correctly , one of the republicans plans was a health care savings plan that would allow poverty level Americans to establish a savings account that would go towards paying their medical needs....Poverty level americans don't have bank accounts .... more proof that republican politicians are out of touch with mainstream America...what was the other Republican plan...? Give tax breaks to the poor so they can afford health care...? Neither one of those plans would do sh#t for the poor or lower middle class...What's next...? Just say no to drugs...?
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
Poverty level americans don't have bank accounts .... more proof that republican politicians are out of touch with mainstream America...what was the other Republican plan...? Give tax breaks to the poor so they can afford health care...?
I totally agree that Republicans are totally out of touch with mainstream America. So are the Democrats. The problem is in figuring out what "mainstream" is supposed to look (and act) like.
However, until somebody can come up with an answer to the following (based upon a quote from your points above), it's really hard for me to be overly sympathetic (and, remember, I myself grew up in poverty):
"Give tax breaks and free health care to the poor so they can afford to breed more and more and more?"
Or how about:
"Give free health care to the illegal immigrants so they are motivated to come here and can also afford to breed more and more and more?"
At some point the middle class is "humane-ed out" with this sort of thing. It's at that point.
So, the solution is really to understand the underlying nature of poverty and address THAT, rather than bumbling (literally: "we have no idea what this is going to do, so let's try it") approaches to SYMPTOMS that cause as many or more problems than they cure. It's like the man rummaging around in the medicine cabinet who calls out to his wife, "Dear, do you want the antacid that has the heart attack risk or the stroke risk?"
We do NOT yet understand a very, very complicated set of causal relations, so we bumble around "curing" symptoms while slowly killing the patient. And, honestly, the patient isn't going to take much more experimenting!
Now, I'll be the first to say that we can START getting costs under control as a nation BY ratcheting back our military a LOT! But I'm not in favor of then taking those hundreds of billions and just squandering them on yet more bumbling social programs that can't cure the patient!
And at SOME point the social-program advocates ARE going to have to come up with a balanced and accurate approach to figuring the results of individual choices into their "humane" equations. NOT every "poor" person is a person worthy of nationally-mandated help. And we CAN come up with metrics to draw some lines. But a no-lines social program is a no-brains social program; and I'll NEVER be on board with any such thing.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Madbolter...My quotes are copyrighted...You'll be hearing from my legal counsel....
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
|
|
LOL....
Okay, they can come after me. They'll find nothing much of value to get. "I gave at the office."
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
Karl wrote:
Thanks for the link, Karl. A pretty decent summary of the situation.
The only mistake I would comment on is using % of GDP as an indicator. A far better indicator is cost per person. The US spends $8,000 per person per year, double that of Germany and France, and almost triple the spending per person in Japan. All of those countries have universal healthcare systems and far better outcomes overall than the US.
The Commonwealth study is worth reading as well and provides a good overview of the differences. An MRI in the US is almost 4 times the cost of one in France, and a CT scan is 3 times the cost of one in France. Americans are getting bilked by the healthcare system!
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
madbolter1 wrote:
And at SOME point the social-program advocates ARE going to have to come up with a balanced and accurate approach to figuring the results of individual choices into their "humane" equations.
At some point you're just going to have to put your emotions away and realize that a universal healthare system not only makes the most economic sense but will provide much better outcomes.
|
|
slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
|
|
Me too Locker !! i got some scrips the other day and didn't have to mortgage the house to do it....sucks having multiple "pre existing"
The premium is still pretty hefty, but at least it's useful
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
|
|
good one Kos. Best I've seen in months.
Anyway, back on the topic of health care. I was recently informed by Medicare that my tetanus innoculation was not covered by Medicare.
Admittedly, the situation is more complex, since the injection also was meant to prevent two other maladies.
I'll keep all y'all posted.
Mind you, I'm not complaining. Just wondering at the nature of the mental process the rule writers in the gov't go through.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Tea G Tea is on a first name basis with his Wal Mart greeter...Cut him slack...
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2014 - 11:45pm PT
|
Associated Press: “Health care enrollment spikes in Utah in December”
Detroit Free Press: “Health insurance enrollment takes off in Michigan, nation for coverage under ACA”
Detroit News: “Feds: Michigan experiences 11-fold increase in health care sign-ups”
MLive: “Obamacare signups in Michigan spike in December; see demographic breakdown”
Sun-Sentinel: “Obamacare enrollment gains traction in Florida”
Stevens Point Journal: “Obamacare enrollment soars in Wisconsin”
Palm Beach Post: “Florida’s Obamacare enrollment surges, as does the nation's”
Albuquerque Business First: “New Mexico’s Healthcare.gov enrollment soars”
Bellingham Herald: “Wash. one of top states in health care enrollment”
WSFA: “More Alabamians signing up for health insurance”
Capital New York: “Strong Obamacare numbers from NY exchange director”
Gannett: “More Hoosiers joined health exchange in December”
Des Moines Register: “7,500 Iowans have signed up for private insurance on healthcare.gov, compared to 757 a month ago”
The Gazette: “Colorado health insurance enrollments continue at steady pace”
WRAL: “North Carolina fifth nationally in enrollment under health law”
Boise State Public Radio: “Idaho’s Health Insurance Exchange Enrollment Increases 1,000 Percent”
WLTX: “Health Insurance Enrollment Spikes in South Carolina”
Billings Gazette: “Montana sign-ups for Obamacare policies surge in December”
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
|
christ
it is just relentless stupidity
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2014 - 05:08pm PT
|
Most of the early wave of health insurance enrollees are older than 45, records show
Enrollment skewing "older"....uuuhhooohh. Maybe we can borrow more from China to fund this disaster.
Time to enlist Hollywood types to convince the young and generally healthy to subsidize you geezers.
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
|
"christ
it is just relentless stupidity"
(Worth repeating)
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
|
Jan 15, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
|
Yep, ACA is stupidity at its finest.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!