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sowr
Trad climber
CA
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Jan 26, 2013 - 11:22am PT
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I remain leery of people making sweeping statements about either the existence or non-existence of this thing called God. The Universe is rather large and a tad confusing, even for the theoretical physicists, so I'm taking a stab here and saying that we can't know for or against. I find people who state emphatically that there is no God just as irritating and constrained as people who state there is.
Anyway here's my testimony:
When I was a teen I was a devout Christian, and realized the error of my ways high on a mountain when it struck me that the rocks were more than likely a lot older than 5000 years. I therefore felt compelled to chuck the Bible out, while some of the stuff that Jesus said made a lot of sense, and never left me, the notion of the trinity etc. seemed like it had been made up by someone.
It look many years for me to find a "replacement" for religion. I read a lot of philosophy, but it was Olaf Stapledon who really struck a chord with, he and Carl Sagan gave me my cosmic view of things, plus the pragmatism, and to not make sweeping statements about things we cannot understand.
So therefore I reject both atheism and religion, and try and form my own vision, most suited to me. I don't discount god, but neither to I accept this notion. I certainly reject religion.
I'll keep looking knowing that I'll never know.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
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There is a G-d.
His testimony surrounds all of us throughout the Universe. There is no excuse.
Psalm 14:1 (KJV Cambridge Ed.)
"> The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."
1 Corinthians 3:19 (KJV Cambridge Ed.)
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."
Romans 1:20 (KJV Cambridge Ed.)
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
Atheism will get you nowhere.
Edit fo HFCS:
There is only one G-d ... the others are impostors of the Fallen Angel type. Read Dr. Michael Heiser, a Hebrew Scholar. There are other gods. Small g. But there is only one G-D. The G-D.
G-d: Hashem Adonai Elohim
His personal name -- the tetragrammaton, not to be pronounced out of respect.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
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Sour's next step - if he were interested - would be to distinguish between "god" in the abstract and "God Jehovah" the god of the ancient Hebrews and modern Christians and Muslims.
Last I checked, this was largely a Christian nation when it comes to religion. So when Christians ref "god" they are not referencing Poseidon or Amon-Re or Marduk or a thousand others. And they're certainly not referencing the abstract nonpersonal higher power ("God") that some famous scientists have called God as a metaphor for natural laws or cosmic order.
Jehovah's an ancient local god, no more or less than the others. If Sour's not an "atheist" regarding Apollo or Artemis then really what does that say. What goes for the ancient local Greek gods goes for the ancient local Hebrew gods - esp when you take into account cross-study in a plurality of theologies and theisms and when you set aside cultural bias.
Largely because of Christianity and the dominance of Jehovah (as opposed to Quetzalcoatl or Wotan) in America, this culture of red, white and blue, sadly, is every bit as theologically illiterate as it is scientifically illiterate.
But times are changing. Hopefully future generations will be wiser.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jan 26, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
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Bruce, it all depends on what grade level you elect to debate.
Personally, I like to mix it up some. ;)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 26, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
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that would be reincarnation
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jstan
climber
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Jan 26, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
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Where do they send the bad Texans?
Washington
If you listen to Texans, Washington is hell.
so by this definition I feel like I'm agnostic but it seems ridiculous to sit on the fence when so much evidence supports no god and so little evidence supports god. I'm as committed as is reasonable to the belief that there is no god, in the absence of evidence.
If you look at it statistically, the absence of any example where a supernatural force has interfered in an earthly process gives us very high confidence we may assume there is no god at all. Certainly not on earth. Now the fact that a god, if it exists has infinite power, allows great confidence there is no activity of a god anywhere. God is, supposedly built in our image and reportedly very concerned with us. If it had any power it would surely exert some of that power here. Nada.
I think I may have seen a reason why homo sapiens went to the trouble of constructing all of these gods. I saw a power line with dozens of birds perched on it, ready for any hawk that was hungry. If creatures like birds, and us for that matter, are always grouped together in some number, our odds of survival increase proportionately. So we create churches held together by some artificial means, so that we won't be alone and a target for predators.
Our banking system that has an implacable appetite and allows all the birds to be taken in one swoop has defeated that strategy, but we won't go into that here.
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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If you look at it statistically, the absence of any example where a supernatural force has interfered in an earthly process gives us very high confidence we may assume there is no god at all.
I'm not very good at understanding that. What do the statistics say about how often we should expect to see examples of supernatural forces interfering in an earthly process in a reality where god exists, versus how often we should expect to see examples of supernatural forces interfering in an earthly process in a reality where god doesn't exist? What exactly does our evidence tell us?
It seems to me like we just have a need to fill in the blanks of our incomplete information using whatever tool is convenient - whether that's blind faith, or survivor bias, or confirmation bias, or whatever belief system we prefer.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Feb 19, 2013 - 11:23am PT
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What's trending?
So you're an atheist, you're in good company.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/2/18/harvard-atheist-week/
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“Promises, covenants, and oaths”—the good faith that binds together civil society—“can have no hold on an atheist.”
Who said it?
Who said it speaks volumes.
Even today, seven state constitutions technically forbid atheists from holding public office.
Another reason to like the atheist life: It's a golden opportunity to rebel - to break through - and to help set the ships of things to rights.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 19, 2013 - 11:53am PT
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major component of blind faith is willingly engaging in blindness.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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Roger Ebert died today.
I know it is coming, and I do not fear it, because I believe there is nothing on the other side of death to fear.
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/15/roger_ebert/
I bequeath myself to the dirt to grow from the grass I love,
If you want me again look for me under your boot-soles.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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"what came first, tyranasaurus rex or adam and eve. which event has more proof?"...
Actually they coexisted...
Adam was even known to occassionally ride a Tyranasaurus Rex down to the local Circle K...
this is true!
as evidenced by this photo taken of the Creation Museum showing humans and dinos lived, played, ate, and were happy living together
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