Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
What a PERFECT example of doublethink, the ability to totally ignore a fact and spew complete bullshit 10 seconds after a absolutely opposite fact has been presented.
Hawkeye, you are SO full of shit! you ain't never been close to my idea of a fine mind, but you are f*#king up even YOUR reputation.
"IT" was PRECISELY and EXACTLY "...constructed to withstand the hit from a jet airliner and the subsequent conflagration ..."
No it wasn't. Because it didn't. They TRIED To construct it to withstand that, but they failed. As Hawkeye said in the same post, engineers are not infallible.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
Is this movie about Klimmer?
What part does Cameron Diaz play?
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
rox
...but alas, it was not constructed to withstand the hit from a jet airliner and the subsequent conflagration
sounds like a trying day for you. did you read the bold above? and my previous post below?
GC,
i particularly like this sentance.....
Asbestos contains fire, cannot burn and holds up after metal and glass have melted down, giving vital time for people to escape.
unfortunately, in the case of WTC, the steel members DID melt down and since that was the structure it fell. doesnt help much to have fireproof walls in a skyrise when your structure is suceptible to fire damage.
from wiki:
[edit] FireproofingIn April 1970, the New York City Department of Air Resources ordered contractors building the World Trade Center to stop the spraying of asbestos as an insulating material.[13]
Fireproofing was incorporated in the original construction and more was added after a fire in 1975 that spread to six floors before being extinguished. After the 1993 bombing, inspections found fireproofing to be deficient. The Port Authority was in the process of replacing it, but replacement had been completed on only 18 floors in 1 WTC, including all the floors affected by the aircraft impact and fires,[14] and on 13 floors in 2 WTC, although only three of these floors (77, 78, and 85) were directly affected by the aircraft impact.[15][note 2] and that the fireproofing was being replaced due to its asbestos content, in fact the builders had been informed of a proposed ban on using asbestos/vermiculite fireproofing during construction and had ceased using it.
nowadays, we use cementicious and intumescent firecoatings on large steel structures. We also tend to coat more of the members (in some instances ALL).
fact: steel strucure design for high rises has changed since 911 (at least if you want the building to stand). i have a strutural guy who works for me with the NIST reports on his desk as well as a whole bunch of other reports and lessons learned from 911 and WTC.
your comments about computers in the early 70's versus today are hilarious. the programs available today, for structures so far exceed what was available then it is not funny. but keep in mind that computers are just a tool and can be as misused as your mouth.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
No, that can't be Klimmer. Must be about some other bad teacher.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
but keep in mind that computers are just a tool and can be as misused as your mouth.
Or your keyboard.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
is klimmer blonde too?
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
Forget about the Pentagon. We need more pictures of THIS "bad teacher."
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
is klimmer blonde too?
Metaphorically maybe?
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
And the software/performance to perform recursive iterations of tables that was required to model heat transfer and all the rest.
rox,
sadly, i have forgotten more heat transfer than you ever thought possible about learning.
while in grad school i did a calc on my PC that was very simple. i started it up in the morning, went skiing, had dinner, and it was still not done. that was early 80's vintage and was nowhere near complex enough to model anything resembling what would be required for WTC getting hit by an airliner filled with fuel.
do you have another rental property that you can evict someone from? seems to put you in rare form.
edit:
now this thread is headed in hte right direction.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
The structural modeling for the WTC was done on an IBM 1620
The IBM 1620 was announced by IBM on October 21, 1959, and marketed as an inexpensive "scientific computer". After a total production of about two thousand machines, it was withdrawn on November 19, 1970.
It came in two models, most obviously identified by the typewriter used as the console I/O device, in three memory sizes: 20,000, 40,000 or 60,000 decimal digits of core memory. Not "K", not bytes. This was a decimal machine, not binary. Memory was organized in 6 bit "positions", 4 bits for a decimal digit, a "check" bit, and a "flag" bit. Core memory of magnetized ferrite beads was inherently non-volatile! It did not have a fixed word length. It did not have addressable registers, all operands were in core memory. (Add two 100 digit numbers? Sure, one instruction.) The design was called "CADET" (can't add, doesn't even try). Arithmetic was done by table look-up. The Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code, BCD, used by external devices, the Model 026 keypunch for example, only defined one set of upper case letters, 10 digits, some punctuation, and a few special characters. (Oh, so THAT's why these old timers keep shouting in their e-Mail!) It's amazing how little you need to make a computer if you're ingenious enough.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
nice try rox,
graduate level heat transfer is all pretty much partial differential equations. and most of those are what we call steady-state.
throw time (unsteady) into the mix and they get rather complicated. and this is what you would be doing so as to determine how fast a steel member would reach a point at which the strength was unsatisfactory.
i am sure that there are multiple ways to set the equation up and or model the effects of heat on the steel members and the composite structure and frankly, i have forgotten most of that stuff.
note that any discussion about heat and members alongside the above pictures is purely coincidental...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2011 - 11:38pm PT
|
I like how all these people here in this thread were in the towers watching the steel getting hot and starting to fail.
Oh wait ... they weren't there.
They just modeled and simulated it on the computer.
Just see!
What rascals, .... and the sheep buy it from these rascals happily eating this grass getting fat for their slaughterhouse of their souls .....
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
yeah werner, but we werent there last time you took a sh#t either but my money is on the fact that i did not want to be there either.
thanks for your concern though.
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
|
|
What rascals, .... and the sheep buy it from these rascals happily eating this grass getting fat for their slaughterhouse of their souls .....
Don't get so upset.
Just repeat this a few times and you will feel better.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
|
Rokjox, the most clueless person in the world? The computer stuff lately in the thread is just hilarious.
You need "quite a lot" of computer power to make and run a structural model of a skyscraper that is able to model the hit of an airplane.
Klimmer, cant you explain to me the full issue with the pulverized concrete that was find in your link?
Sorry for the political post.
Wasn't nothing wrong with writing in Assembler, it was bloody efficient. It just took trained programmers. Half of the computer power used today is just to run the overhead. And to coddle the programmers. And programs come out all slow and badly written and inefficient as a result. Heat is a second semester class as I recall, not all that deep into the math...
It is strange that the modeling I do get faster for every new computer I am using. Why did the use large super computers when for example forecasting the weather when all they had to do is to write a little assembly and run the code on a computer from the seventies?
I wounder how long time it would take to write a simulation program from scratch in assembly that would in detail simulate a plane crashing into the wtc towers.
|
|
cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
|
|
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
This is part of the delusion of The Truthers. ...
[They] would have you believe German, Spanish, French and English terror cells around the world were also invented as part of the conspiring I guess.
It is the delusion of The Believers that The Truthers are putting forth any claims as to who did what on 9-11.
"The Truthers believe this ..."
"The Truthers believe that ..."
I have news for you, this is what The Truthers believe: The Official Conspiracy Theory is flawed, the 9-11 Commission Report is a whitewash of the actual events that occurred.
Truthers make no attempt to determine why, or to imply by whom.
However, The Truthers *do* know, via established empirical evidence, that a series of observable events took place, and these events can be analyzed.
So Riley and others, don't put words into The Truthers mouths, it just proves that you don't read what we have to say.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|