Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Nov 22, 2017 - 06:46pm PT
|
"It doesn't make any difference how beautiful your guess is,"
Have to call BS there and agree with Nietzsche: "the only justification for existence is the aesthetic experience." Without beauty and the sublime what is the worth of science?
|
|
Byran
climber
Half Dome Village
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 01:02am PT
|
Without beauty and the sublime what is the worth of science?
Truth.
Not sure how beauty and "the sublime" factors into say... testing a blood sample for HIV. Seems to me that the only worth in doing such a test rests on the accuracy of the results.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 07:22am PT
|
Malemute, Thanks for the Feynman article! Awesome and speaks to the essence of the thing called science.
Bryan , There is a wonderful elegance to science - including the development and implementation of an accurate HIV test. Those who get this are usually those most passionate and dedicated to the craft.
Right now I'm passionate about the curation of genetic testing, determining down-regulated enzymes related to a patient presentation/condition, upregulating the gene and enzyme expression via clinical nutrition, and using follow up exams and lab testing to confirm the results. This is all wonderful, elegant, and even "magical" to witness and an example of science used in the healing art.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 09:39am PT
|
imo, a must read...
The Strange Death of Europe, by Douglas Murray
https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity/dp/1472942248/ref=pd_sbs_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YF9S7P7AMVRXMX1FTYYZ
imo, a must listen, time stamp 1:00:05 start to end...
Douglas Murray, Sam Harris
https://youtu.be/q2-G7E5BfGQ?t=1h5s
re: meaning, purpose
We get X,Y and Z in education, in public schooling, but we really don't get anything on what we're doing here. In life. On earth. On what it's all about.
"What are we doing here?" -a student
"I think this failure to address this, to tackle this, is, in part, a demonstration of weakness." -bruce murray
imo, most of the youtube commentary completely misses the best subject matter, which doesn't begin till one hour in.
Happy Thanksgiving all!
...
Right now I'm passionate about the curation of genetic testing...
Mark, you might be interested to know that Jennifer Doudna is soon to appear on Harris's show.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/science/jennifer-doudna-crispr-cas9-genetic-engineering.html
This discovery is considered as one of the most significant discoveries in the history of biology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Doudna
Harris is currently tweeting to his base about what questions to ask her. Should be a good episode.
"Dr. Doudna earned her doctoral degree by engineering a catalytic RNA that could self-replicate..."
...
"While everyone welcomes Crispr-Cas9 as a strategy to treat disease, many scientists [not to mention many others?] are worried that it could also be used to alter genes in human embryos, sperm or eggs in ways that can be passed from generation to generation. The prospect raises fears of a dystopian future in which scientists create an elite population of designer babies with enhanced intelligence, beauty or other traits."
But in the interest of the gene pool, do we not need some sort of honing device in our toolbox to offset the current environment in which many genomes are saved when previously in previous generations they would not have been saved?
Byran, you should give this podcast episode segment a listen. I'd be interested in hearing your related views.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 10:32am PT
|
Truth.
Really, and what's the point of truth if it yields only despair? Without the aesthetic, truth is without reconciliation and an invitation to succumb to despair. It is the aesthetic experience that is finally the antidote to the perception of the emptiness of existence. Truth offers nothing in this regard.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 10:49am PT
|
what's the point of truth if it yields only despair?
First,
If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.
Second,
Who says that? that truth "yields only despair"?
truth is... an invitation to succumb to despair.
So do not accept the invitation. Question your attitude.
Change gears. Stop spending so much time on the dark side.
Go climb a mountain. Sunny side!
In my experience, it is coming to terms (ie., reconciling) with reality - as a continuous process and over a lifetime - and making the necessary adjustments (incl the necessary breaks with tradition and history) that... is "the antidote" to this perception of emptiness you speak of.
|
|
MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 11:05am PT
|
Without beauty and the sublime what is the worth of science?
+1. I can't say how much life looks like that to me these days.
Mark: . . . an example of science used in the healing art.
Given the readings and proponents from posts of yours, I’m a little surprised that you’ve not made note of the arts of shamans. Science heals the body. Shamans heal the soul.
HFCS: First, If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.
Say something significant. You’re a one-trick pony with one narrative.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 11:20am PT
|
re: flip the script strategy
Say something significant. You’re a one-trick pony with one narrative.
You partisan strategist! lol
...
Hawkeye: He said "Do not try to understand them".
Hawkeye: Yes, and, "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 12:16pm PT
|
In my experience, it is coming to terms (ie., reconciling) with reality - as a continuous process and over a lifetime - and making the necessary adjustments (incl the necessary breaks with tradition and history) that... is "the antidote" to this perception of emptiness you speak of.
If reality is a meaningless irrelevant existence as the equivalent of a microbe on a dust speck alone in an infinite and uncaring universe, I'd call that a recipe for despair. "Necessary adjustments"= faith, religion?
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
|
Really, and what's the point of truth if it yields only despair?
Maybe a cure for cancer?
But only if it involves an artistic flourish or is written up as literature.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 02:31pm PT
|
Fruity isn't going to get the aesthetic angle, or that good science serves our being. You might as well be trying to teach poetry to a bantam rooster.
Not to say Fruity doesn't have some good ideas, but you should never argue with someone stuck in a perspective (Mike's one-trick-pony), or someone who never asks honest questions. But Fruity gooses this and the mind thread by adding a little dust up and blog style ranting. The commentary might be plebian but his links are often iteresting.
As they say, take what you want ... and leave the rest.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
|
Maybe a cure for cancer?
While all agree that a cure for cancer would be wonderful, ultimately there is no cure for mortality. And when heart disease and cancer have been cured our ending will still loom before us as will our insignificance if that's what we believe. .
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 04:19pm PT
|
Modern science has zero clues why cooking on cow sh!t is still to this day the real best cooking fuel ever.
All their data goes in the toilet on this one .....
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 04:29pm PT
|
Feynman proclaimed -- "If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong. That's all there is to it."
So Feynman is the intelligent class scientist.
The modern scientist never did the experiment and proclaim there is no God.
They are wrong just as Feynman proclaimed.
But brainwashed Malemute who really knows nothing himself except linking Utubes and quotes just like fruitman
of which they have incomplete realizations make hypocritical unscientific rants daily here ......
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 04:36pm PT
|
You're dreaming ...
They never did the experiment as they never knew how to do the experiment in the first place.
|
|
Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 07:24pm PT
|
I think it is important to search for what is meaningful to me within my meaningless existence.
I can find the pursuit of knowledge—a painful life lesson or ideas I read about, or a mindlessly fun or physically and mentally challenging climb, or a delicious dinner I cooked, or a beautiful painting, poem or alpine cirque meaningful.
The cognitive dissonance and sense that I am deluding myself about one or the other is fleeting and is only a minor annoyance.
Life is such a strange thing. Even with all the slings and arrows—and being an atheist at heart, not really worried about what dreams may come—I continue to prefer life to the alternative. And, by definition, what would be a meaningful life—being omniscient and living forever? I think that would get so boring I’d have to kill myself.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3032985/How-do-we-justify-this-activity
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 07:31pm PT
|
being omniscient and living forever? I think that would get so boring I’d have to kill myself.
You can't do it.
No one has ever done it .....
|
|
Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
|
Whew! That’s a relief.
Wait, which part?
Oh well. Either way it’s probably for the best.
. )
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!