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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 01:27pm PT
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Well keep throwing Chris2.
Remember if you can that even though we were at war most American's refused to believe the horror stories coming out of OCCUPIED EUROPE.
It took pictures and lots of them to convince US that the "good civilized" Germans could be so utterly evil.
Wake up and get ahead of the curve on this one so that your future is not haunted by your past.
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Jan 16, 2009 - 01:42pm PT
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Things are different in today’s information age. Anyone carrying a cell phone can take a photo, post it to the net and people can see it.
Start showing me photo’s of:
Mass graves
Executions
Piles of extracted teeth, that had gold in them
Lampshades made out of human skin
Gas chambers
Number tat’s on individual’s arms
Forced slave labor
Using live humans for scientific studies
And ovens to burn bodies…
Then feel completely free to call the Israeli’s Nazi’s.
Hundreds are dying in Gaza and it is very wrong.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
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So again I will ask, though I expect no answer. Exactly WHAT has the past Israeli holocaust have to do with the Palestinians. Why should they have to pay the price of today's silent holocaust for something they had nothing to do with? How does it justify the horrid treatment of the Palestinians at the hands of the Jews for over sixty years?
And please don't puke out the hackneyed response that..."If I had missiles raining death and destruction... Yada yada blah blah blah!
You may not like what I have to say and some of you may even hate me for what I say. But not one of you have offered up a single cogent argument to counter my posts.
History will not be kind to Zionism.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 16, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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No problem with this thread going to the top. Stupid thread title, one given by an obvious moron (or, as sometimes used on this site, a "maroon"). But a great discussion. Who needs to search the internet for a diversity of information, when those arging here post an enormous sampling of opinion/fact/argument?
Another question for Philo. It has to do with the incredible bravery of Palistinian women, as illustrated by your comment:
"The IDF and the IAF are cowardly bastards. The grieving Palestinian mothers who get in the Israeli soldiers faces have a thousand times more balls than these swine!"
I'm curious; do these same "ballsy" women get in the face of Hamas fighters? Do they confront Hamas leaders? One would think that SOME Palistinian women might disagree with SOME of what Hamas is doing? Do 100% of ballsy Palistianian women agree with 100% of what Hamas is doing? If not why don't they get in their faces?
Hint - such women may be brave, but they are not stupid. They know it is OK to "get in the face of" an Israeli soldier - he's unlikely to kill you unless you attack him first. But get in the face of magnanimous, efficient, noble Hamas, leaders of a just and fair society, and what happens. They'll f-ing kill you. Now and ruthlessly.
Think about the nature of the society you so passionately defend. And Sharia law. And total intolerance of political dissent.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:06pm PT
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mntyoung that is utter BS! There is NO society on earth where 100% of the people agree 100% of the time. I know for a fact that strong Palestinian women get in the face of Hamas. They are not killed as you erroneously imply. But unarmed Palestinians are regularly shot in the head by IDF swine while trying to surrender.
Remember if you can that we are not comparing scale.
We are comparing methods, tactics and actions. And in that light the parallels are striking and apropos.
Even Albert Einstein said so!
But what did a terrorist sympathizer like that know?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:10pm PT
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Oh for f*#king f*#ks sake - Philo has explained probably TEN OR MORE times in this thread about his opinion on the thread title.
Are some people here REALLY so dense that they keep repeating the same thing on and on and on like it's rote pablum from first grade and that's all they know?
What's being done to the citizens of Gaza is murder and yes - it is genocide. Killing f*#king CHILDREN - are you all NUTS?
Tell ME that all the kids shown dead in the pictures are casualties of being to close to an indiscriminate bomb when you look at these photos:
Pointing guns at CHILDREN? To keep their parents in line, I suppose. What happens when a mother can't take it any more, snaps and makes a move to push away the soldier's gun?
These soldiers are PIGS.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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well, philo, einstein also encouraged fdr to pursue the bomb and then expressed regret after truman used the bomb so effectively
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/16/elite-hamas-unit-destroyed-hamas-surprised-by-idf/
looks like israel's strategy of shock and awe (which, by the way, was developed by the lib's favorite military man colin powell) is working
"I know for a fact that strong Palestinian women get in the face of Hamas. They are not killed as you erroneously imply. But unarmed Palestinians are regularly shot in the head by IDF swine while trying to surrender."
philo, you know for a fact? everything i believe about HAMAS is wrong but everything you believe about "IDF swine" is true? i believe the jewish media, which openly critcizes their government because they operate in a free society, but you believe the HAMAS media that never criticizes their government because they don't operate in a free society
happie, how do you know what's happening in those pics? i don't see an israeli soldier pointing a gun at children to intimidate their parents...i see a soldier in a war zone--a war against an enemy that has used children, women, ambulances, hospitals, etc. as weapons/shields--using his gun, probably to direct a group of civilians,maybe to demand they open their bags...basic training teaches these soldiers to never take their hands away from their weapon because they simply don't know who the enemy is...any of the men in those pics could be HAMAS...of course, HAMAS has a long history of treating israeli civilians with gentle compassion
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:20pm PT
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Thank you Happiegirl!
Sometimes speaking truth to power is a lonely onus.
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UncleDoug
climber
No. Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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Those soldiers are not pigs they are not even worthy of being called organic life.....
All those that are in favor of what Israel is doing and are not clamoring to make alyia and truly support Israel with their own blood are the real spineless pigs.
Can't wait till the US is a lawless land.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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"happie, how do you know what's happening in those pics? i don't see an israeli soldier pointing a gun at children to intimidate their parents...i see a soldier in a war zone--a war against an enemy that has used children, women, ambulances, hospitals, etc. as weapons/shield"
WORM would you kindly stop barfing that lame justification for genocide.
Human shields my ass!
There is more evidence of Israelis using Palestinian boys as human shields, marching them in front at gun point, than there ever was of Hamas using their own children as human shields.
The bigotry of your ignorance is showing. Now pull up your pants!
Oh PLEASE Skip next you will tell us the world is flat.
Those guns are aimed directly at CHILDREN! And it is done for exactly the reason Happiegirl stated. To keep the parents in line. And by the way that IS a war crime.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:31pm PT
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The BOY IS CRYING. His mother is looking at the soldier with such controlled rage(as ANY mother would, when knowing she must NOT ACT in any way that could set off that coward behind the weapon) that it makes me want to SPIT.
The soldier is eying the sight of the weapon, and the sight is on the boy.
PIG!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:39pm PT
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And Happiegirl that is why i started the What Gaza thread.
But those who are so offended by this OP title wont let go of this thread.
So what did this boy do to deserve being pig handled?
Throw a rock at a tank? Oooh bad terrorist!
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:40pm PT
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Happy, Go buy a dictionary and look up "genocide". It's one thing to have an opinion on the Gaza conflict but another to distort language and make a bloody fool out of yourself.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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OK blood lust-ers how about this solution...
Take 1000 of the oldest civilian citizens of Israel and 1000 of the oldest palestinians and put them in a Roman-esque arena. Give them nothing but bare hands, sticks and stones. Lock them in for a week and let who ever is left standing be the winner take all side. It could even be closed circuit televised for your salacious entertainment.
WOODSTROKE you would know more about making a fool of yourself than most.
Most of the civilized world is begining to call this GENOCIDE.
Here is the New American Heritage Dictionary definition of genocide.
Gen-o-cide The systematic, planned annihilation of a racial, political, or cultural group.
The last 60 years of illegal occupation have proven this to be true of the Israeli actions towards the Palestinians.
And by your connotation the Nazis were not practicing Genocide against the Jews as obviously they are very much still around.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:51pm PT
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Woody, I just went through the same thing with Philo. "Genocide." Pure crap, pure emotion. Philo, how is it genocide? Twelve hundred dead, when you yourself have accurately pointed out that Israel could kill all Gazans, should they choose to do so. Hyperbole does nothing to pursuade.
And address the fact that the Palestinians would gladly genocide the jews if only they could (oh, but they'd do it with a cute rabbit, and they're only jews, so then it wouldn't be genocide). I think it's pathological - its not that you won't see two sides, its that you can't.
And who cares about the thread title? If a dipshiite starts a thread, but the ensuing discussion is valuable, why give a damn about the title?
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jan 16, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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Y'know who isn't getting genocided?
The Hamas leaders in Syria, that's who.
Guess no one wants to talk about them.
"Generals sat, and the lines on the map moved from side to side."
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 16, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
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No, Philo, how about this as a solution - both sides let go of some of the hatred, and prejudice and give.
Gazans: stop villifying and rocketing Israel. Acknowledge reality, give up past "injustices" and decide on peace.
Israel: withdraw it's absolutely mindbogglingly stupid settlements from the West Bank. Understand that they're dealing with a society that might not be able to "give" first, and unilaterally declare peace for a period of at least years. Take attacks if they come. Open the borders, come what may. Let Gaza act like an independant country, even start trying to help with economic development, trying to help create Palestinian prosperity. Make the world know that Israel, at least truly wants peace, and that it is willing to "take it on the chin" in order to get it.
But, that would require maturity by both sides; courage and risk. Nah, forget it.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Jan 16, 2009 - 03:05pm PT
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You know mntyoung I am not talking solely about this war crime in Gaza.
I am talking about 60 years of planned and deliberate genocidal policies and a death toll far greater than you realize.
"No, Philo, how about this as a solution - both sides let go of some of the hatred, and prejudice and give.
Gazans: stop villifying and rocketing Israel. Acknowledge reality, give up past "injustices" and decide on peace.
Israel: withdraw it's absolutely mindbogglingly stupid settlements from the West Bank. Understand that they're dealing with a society that might not be able to "give" first, and unilaterally declare peace for a period of at least years. Take attacks if they come. Open the borders, come what may. Let Gaza act like an independant country, even start trying to help with economic development, trying to help create Palestian prosperity. Make the world know that Israel, at least truly wants peace, and that it is willing to "take it on the chin" in order to get it.
But, that would require maturity by both sides; courage and risk. Nah, forget it".
mntyoung that is essentially what I have been advocating for all along.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 16, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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Don't presume to know what I "realize" Philo - I'll bet I can recite more of the last 60 years of middle eastern history from memory than you can, and so whoopedy do. I try to look at both sides. What you can't see is that both sides have been absolutely murderous to each other for (more than) 60 years. It isn't and it never has been the "one way street" you salivate about.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Jan 16, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
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I've tried to read and not post Philo. I've been largely successful until today.
Maybe you think my earlier post is "essentially what [you] have been advocating for all along." Maybe, but your comments sure don't read that way. It takes two sides to make peace. Israel is not the only demon here.
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